Army Chief: Infantry Needs New 7.62mm Rifle

mikethebike said:
OK Ive heard enough ox excrement on this thread

FACT: velocity has an exponential effect on ke, while mass has only a multiplier effect, therefore if you double the speed as opposed to doubling the weight you get square as opposed to 2x. Thats physics in this universe boys and girls.

KE=0.5 m v^2

that being said photons are incredibly fast but have no weight so negligible KE, because 0 x speed of light squared is still 0. so mass has an impact to energy, but not as much as speed. imagine if that photon was just 1 grain in weight, we'd have some serious problems in this universe, and no amount of bullet proof armor, even an entire tank would be able to deflect that skinny photon

of course you can ignore physics and just live in the world of wizards, unicorns and magic
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True, but it completely ignores the velocity fall-off.
Velocity decays, mass does not.
That is why all the ridiculously light, high speed .17 cal experimental rounds from the 70s went nowhere...
 
Travis Bickle said:
MK 318 Mod 0/Mod 1
It's already around. Has been for a while.
I've had a chance to actually see first hand what that ammunition is capable of in terms of penetration and it's remarkable. The open tip as a by product of the manufacturing process makes it devastating on human targets (as well as good to go by Hague convention limitations) and the velocity of the cartridge out of an M4 barrel was at least 3,100 fps.
They basically fixed all the problems of the design of the M855 and then added a solid copper slug base on the projectile and drew the jacket up around the core leaving an open tip (this makes for unsurpassed penetration on hard targets, wood, steel etc). Spiked the velocity to still get effective terminal ballistics out to 250 meters from an M4 barrel. It's also barrier blind so it does not deviate very much when passing through hard materials like metal, wood, cement etc
Very impressive cartridge.
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Thank you for pointing out this latest & I think the very best evolution of the 5.56mm round.
I also find it kind of interesting that for at least three decades now, various European nations allow use of 22 centerfire on their smaller big game beasts.
And mostly with 77 grain bullets, as long as minimum energy requirements are met.

Info
 
Lvl 4 can be penetrated by 5.56 - by the m995 but apparently it'll just ice pick through not give the kind of wounding effects desired.

I reckon it'll end up being a Gen 2 308 style upper - for a select few. Doesn't sound like Milley felt the need to deploy Lvl 4 defeating capability for everyone.
 
IIRC the M993 (7.62) and M995 (5.56) tungsten carbide cored rounds cost $3 or $4 a pop, and that might be in 1990s dollars to boot.

And that's for a plain AP design, if you wanted a bullet that had decent terminal performance as well, then you better break open your piggy bank.
 
LordEvilPepper said:
Excempt when you start dealing with sabot style peniteator cores... then that larger projectile with much higher energy puts a lot more force on the same sized "attempted" hole as the fast little speedy round. You want to see exponetionaly more penitration.... you go big with a nice small diamiter penatrator core.
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Give em all shotguns with fully rifled barrels & sabot slugs for the shorter range stuff ? :popCorn:
 
LordEvilPepper said:
Excempt when you start dealing with sabot style peniteator cores... then that larger projectile with much higher energy puts a lot more force on the same sized "attempted" hole as the fast little speedy round. You want to see exponetionaly more penitration.... you go big with a nice small diamiter penatrator core.
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The sabot is the piece engaging the bore and it is discarded after it leaves the muzzle. The ''bullet'' is a sub caliber. This is used in tank round like the APDS-T (armor piercing discarding sabot - tracer) and TPDS-T (target Practice Discarding Sabot - Tracer) . The APDS-T fly at almost 5000 FPS and can defeat reactive armor. It uses the principle that a faster round delivering it's energy on a smaller cross sectional denstity will penetrate better than a larger one with similar energy or velocity. It's not an exception, it follow the same rules that velocity exponentially deliver energy vs mass. There's a lot more to it than this simple formula but I'm not an engineer.
 
norlandgeese said:
As much as I'm aware of the NEA saga, it's a bit premature to say the 102 doesn't work.
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Jeez. Tough crowd.

How about this then:
There's no way the u.s. is going to go with an Nea102, when they had already been using the sr25/m110 and are phasing it out for something else.
 
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