6.5 Creedmoor reliability in a semi? It has almost no taper..

[Astute Observer]

Yes, they won't be here until fall. I'm weighing 6.5 CM vs 260 in the XCR-M, the major difference in being able to load longer bullets as far as I can tell.

That's fantastic news! Hopefully they put out barrels longer than just 20". 22-24" would be ideal.

 

[cr5]

That's fantastic news! Hopefully they put out barrels longer than just 20". 22-24" would be ideal.

What would be the point if it's for an XCR?
A rifle that's only capable of 1.5-2 moa isn't going to make a very nice group at 800-1000 yards and a couple more inches of barrel won't give enough velocity increase to do anything that a couple more clicks of elevation won't do. A longer barrel is not more accurate and it would just make the rifles balance even worse.
The XCR-M is not a good platform for a cartridge like this in my opinion, the accuracy isn't good enough to shoot long range and it won't do anything a 308 won't do at the practical shooting range of an XCR. 6.5cm is pretty much pointless unless you have it in a rifle that is capable of sub moa and you actually plan to shoot past 600 yards with it, otherwise it's just a more expensive round that doesn't do anything a 308 won't do for less money.

 

[Astute Observer]

What would be the point if it's for an XCR?
A rifle that's only capable of 1.5-2 moa...

Because I'm thinking about abandoning .308 as a cartridge. I own a 6.5 in a very accurate bolt gun (1/2 MOA), and a .308 XCR-M. It would simplify my reloading to only have to worry about one cartridge, and would simplify my load formulas if I have an identical barrel length and twist rate for both my rifles - namely 24".

Accuracy issues aside, the 6.5 CM (and .260 Rem) still has more hitting power at 700+ yards than a .308 because they lose less velocity over time due to the bullet's high BC.

And for what it's worth, If I do happen to need 1 MOA accuracy and I only have my XCR-M on me at the time, my XCR-M can shoot 1 MOA (was accurized by Wolverine); I just have to shut off the gas completely and manually operate the action. But yes, otherwise it's a 2-ish MOA shooter in semi-auto with a .308.

 

[xdmer]

Oh I completely agree, I'm thinking of further ranges because it's something I'm interested in. However, you need a good load to even think of doing this in an XCR, which essentially demands fine tuning in the rifle and load development, + luck.

The funny thing about all the talk of the wicked BC's is that most people buying them think they need the best BC available but don't realize that until you're shooting 600+ yards you will never be able to tell the difference and since most people never shoot beyond 300 yards they are wasting their money on the new projectile and wasting their time and money on load development to make those new projectiles work in their rifle.
It's the same with the 223 guys wanting to shoot heavier boat tail bullets thinking they are more accurate when you can't even see any advantage till you get out beyond 300 yards and in a lot of cases better accuracy under 300 yards can be found with a flat base spitzer type bullet.

We get brainwashed by marketing to think we need more than we really do and that the new latest and greatest will change the world as we know it when in actuality they are just making us spend more money on something we think is better making them rich and us poor.
Same concept as vehicles, does anyone really need their minivan to have 300+ horsepower? Not many do but we wouldn't buy one with 250hp if there is a model with 300hp even if it gets worse mileage and even though it's just to run the kids to school or hockey and to grab groceries?

Come on, join the crowd, jump on the 6.5 bus, it's what all the cool kids are doing.

 

[xdmer]

Do you know what steps were taken to accurize, was yours and older XCR-M that had a gas block upgrade? And I agree, turning off the gas does make a difference. My XCR-M is also in 308, trying to make the 6.5 vs 260 call, she's a little heavy as I have it setup, but she's mine and I like her.

Because I'm thinking about abandoning .308 as a cartridge. I own a 6.5 in a very accurate bolt gun (1/2 MOA), and a .308 XCR-M. It would simplify my reloading to only have to worry about one cartridge, and would simplify my load formulas if I have an identical barrel length and twist rate for both my rifles - namely 24".

Accuracy issues aside, the 6.5 CM (and .260 Rem) still has more hitting power at 700+ yards than a .308 because they lose less velocity over time due to the bullet's high BC.

And for what it's worth, If I do happen to need 1 MOA accuracy and I only have my XCR-M on me at the time, my XCR-M can shoot 1 MOA (was accurized by Wolverine); I just have to shut off the gas completely and manually operate the action. But yes, otherwise it's a 2-ish MOA shooter in semi-auto with a .308.

 

[Astute Observer]

Do you know what steps were taken to accurize, was yours and older XCR-M that had a gas block upgrade? And I agree, turning off the gas does make a difference. My XCR-M is also in 308, trying to make the 6.5 vs 260 call, she's a little heavy as I have it setup, but she's mine and I like her.

Yeah, gas block and gas tube upgrade. Also got rid of the original muzzle brake, and installed one that applies symmetrical force on the barrel (the old one applies more downward force - good for recoil control but caused accuracy issues apparently).

My next step is to go to Ian at Herron Arms (http://www.herronarms.ca/) to do his magic. He does further accurizing of XCRs, and has a treatment that will remove your front takedown pin, and then put in a bolt that will hold the upper and lower together much tighter. Will still swivel open ok, but much tighter... And removing the upper entirely would require a tool (I assume alan key?). But since the XCR barrels change easily, you don't need to switch uppers like you do in an AR for a calibre change, and so there's little downside to mating the upper to the lower. Last step for me will be to replace the FAST stock with a fixed stock.

Also, I was going to go to Herron to get a 6.5 CM barrel custom made, but if Robinson Arms makes one 24" I'd probably just buy from Wolverine.

 

[xdmer]

I see thanks. I have two XCR-L uppers one scoped and one with irons and red dot, so I most likely wouldn't do this mod there. My XCR-M is a candidate though, it must change the harmonics quite a bit. I already have the newer brake , gas block and tube. I know there is value in the longer barrels, but I think I'll be sticking to the 18.5/6.

I just recently put Dlask AR stock adapters on mine, and it makes a big difference. The fit is so much better, and works really well with absolute co-witness optics.

 

[cr5]

Because I'm thinking about abandoning .308 as a cartridge. I own a 6.5 in a very accurate bolt gun (1/2 MOA), and a .308 XCR-M. It would simplify my reloading to only have to worry about one cartridge, and would simplify my load formulas if I have an identical barrel length and twist rate for both my rifles - namely 24".

Accuracy issues aside, the 6.5 CM (and .260 Rem) still has more hitting power at 700+ yards than a .308 because they lose less velocity over time due to the bullet's high BC.

And for what it's worth, If I do happen to need 1 MOA accuracy and I only have my XCR-M on me at the time, my XCR-M can shoot 1 MOA (was accurized by Wolverine); I just have to shut off the gas completely and manually operate the action. But yes, otherwise it's a 2-ish MOA shooter in semi-auto with a .308.

Abandoning 308 won't simplify anything, just because they are both 24 inches long with the same twist doesn't mean they will both shoot the same load equally as well. You also need to consider that the powder your bolt action works the best with may not be the best powder for a semi auto. Powder selection is a lot more critical when reloading for semi auto rifles if you want smooth cycling that is not beating up the rifle. Your adjustable gas block may help but it can't overcome using a powder that is not well suited for the bullet weight in a gas operated rifle.
And while I would shoot 140-142 grain projectiles from a bolt action in 6.5CM I wouldn't shoot that heavy through a semi auto. I've read articles from guys in the US that say that just like you shouldn't shoot 200gr projectiles from a semi auto 308 you shouldn't go up to the 140's in a 6.5CM semi.

You are correct though that it does carry more energy at 800 yards but if you're planning to hunt with it shooting an animal bigger than a coyote at 400+ yards with a 6.5 or a 308 is pretty irresponsible.

You realize that for the amount of money you're going to end up having tied up in your rifle you could have just bought a decked out Modern Hunter and had twice the rifle. Unless you have Ian make it so the barrel can't be removed and replace it with a quality barrel I doubt you'll ever see a consistent 1 moa out of an XCR, you just can't overcome the poor (for accuracy) design of the barrel retention system. If you have to shut off the gas system to get good accuracy why not just use your 1/2 moa rifle and leave the XCR for fun shooting and predator hunting?