Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Smuggling crews back through Iran was easier than flying aircraft around. Plus, free B29s. What's not to like?
Picture of the day
- Thread starter jwhc
- Start date
Smuggling crews back through Iran was easier than flying aircraft around. Plus, free B29s. What's not to like?
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Here is glorious Tu-4, which decadent imperialist Americans copied from stolen plans, with awesome Soviet turboprop engines.
Actually kind of a ###y installation.
Actually kind of a ###y installation.
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Nice paint job, huh?
All the better to see you with.
More here: http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/just-shoot-me-57581298/
All the better to see you with.
More here: http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/just-shoot-me-57581298/
Technically, or politically speaking, Russia and Japan were not at war and therefore neutral as far as the war between the US and Japan was concerned.
Russian had agreed to declare war on Japan when Germany was defeated, and she did so on August 8th, 1945.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soviets-declare-war-on-japan-invade-manchuria
Russian had agreed to declare war on Japan when Germany was defeated, and she did so on August 8th, 1945.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soviets-declare-war-on-japan-invade-manchuria
The Swiss ran a concentration camp.p system for interned allied person. The Swiss government even billed the allies for the bad food, poor medical care,. There were beatings and shootings as the Swiss Military was pro nazi, Swiss business was making a fortune supplying the Germans and hiding stolen Jewish assets. Things were so bad that the US conducted war crimes investigation and Indicted dozens of Swiss Military.
Northern Ireland can be thought of as a British province, contributing to the fight against the Axis. It was the Republic of Ireland that was neutral during the war.
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
Thanks for the info guys! I can see the Swiss not wanting to offend the Nazis with their Swiss bank accounts and pilfered goods.
Billing the Allies? That takes balls!
Billing the Allies? That takes balls!
Jeez, and I always thought of the Swiss as being squeaky clean.
The wife of one of our rancher neighbours is Swiss born. I one asked her what language she spoke and she replied - "Swiss, of course." My response: "Sounds pretty much like German to me." She was offended.
Kampfhamster
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Switzerland
Kampfhamster
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Switzerland
Its swiss-german. It's a dialect and most germans except those from the very southern parts of Germany don't understand much of it.
But don't call us germans. We're not. We fought for it, we bled for it and we get really pissed off if we're called germans.
And no, we were not quite that "clean" in WWII, but what could we possibly have done being surrounded by the Nazis and with no ressources of own own? They could have starved us into submission within a couple months.
We did quite good given the situation.
Who called you Germans?
It was profitable for the Swedes and Swiss to play patty cake with the Nazis while remaining ostensibly neutral. Nice balancing act during the middle of a global conflict and one of the greatest mass exterminations in human history.
The Swiss have a long history of being mercenary soldiers, taking part in most if not all of the European conflicts, one of the reasons they wound up forming the Papal Guard.
It was profitable for the Swedes and Swiss to play patty cake with the Nazis while remaining ostensibly neutral. Nice balancing act during the middle of a global conflict and one of the greatest mass exterminations in human history.
The Swiss have a long history of being mercenary soldiers, taking part in most if not all of the European conflicts, one of the reasons they wound up forming the Papal Guard.
Not bull####. Fact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wauwilermoos_internment_camp#Conditions.2C_human_rights_violations_and_inspections
Switzerland’s wartime general, Henri Guisan, demanded that all Red Cross reports about the internment camps be submitted to army censors first if delegates wanted access. When the US military attaché in Bern found at about this, he warned Marcel Pilet-Golaz, Swiss foreign minister in 1944, that "the mistreatment inflicted on US aviators could lead to 'navigation errors' during bombing raids over Germany."
Wauwilermoos was the subject of official protests by the United States, Great Britain, Poland, Italy, and even prevented normalization of diplomatic relations with the USSR. Although the camp was visited by inspectors, its commanding officer, Béguin, was only suspended and banned from entering the camp on 5 September 1945. On 24 September he was taken into custody. On 20 February 1946, a military court sentenced Béguin to three and a half years in prison.
The Pentagon awarded 143 posthumous POW Medals to World War II veterans who were held in the Wauwilermoos punishment camp. On 30 April 2014 eight survivors of the camp were awarded with the Prisoner of War Medal, thus being recognized for the suffering they endured during their imprisonment.
I would suggest that Switzerland ran a concentration camp. Was it an extermination camp? No. But that still does not diminish that it was an evil and despicable chapter in Swiss history.
Here's an interesting little read -
What were the conditions like in the Swiss internment camps for downed American airmen during WW2?
"Once in the custody of the Swiss government, American airmen were considered “internees.” Internees are treated almost identically to POWs under the laws of war, excepting that by definition an internee is held in a neutral state. Some other US soldiers entered Switzerland by foot, for which they earned the status of “evadee.” Evadees were not kept in camps, and could come and go as they pleased. Internees, on the other hand, were usually restricted to a specific area and kept under guard. The Swiss were determined to adhere strictly to the rules governing internees, largely because they were under constant threat of invasion by the German Army. Any hint of impartiality toward the Allies could have incurred dire consequences for a state that professed neutrality, particularly one surrounded completely by the Axis. USAAF personnel caught attempting escape were punished severely, sometimes well beyond the limits stipulated in the laws of war. The Swiss government’s policy toward neutrality was clearly illustrated by the fact that some USAAF bombers attempting to land in Switzerland were attacked by Swiss fighters and anti-aircraft weapons.
After landing in Switzerland, interned crewmembers were typically interrogated and then quarantined for a short period before movement to a permanent internment camp. The first permanent internment facility was established at Adelboden, and others soon followed in Wengen and Davos. Several “punishment” or concentration camps were also established to house internees undergoing disciplinary punishment, normally for attempting escape. These camps included Straflager Wauwilermoos, Hünenburg, Les Diablerets and Greppen. Wauwilermoos was the most notorious of the punishment camps, due to deplorable camp conditions and a fanatical Swiss Army commander. Incarceration in such facilities grew dramatically after the Allied invasion of France, mainly because of the increased prospect of escape to Allied lines.
Despite the severe treatment that some internees received at the hands of the Swiss government, the overwhelming majority of Swiss citizens were sympathetic to the Allied cause. Many Swiss citizens risked punishment or exile by helping American airmen to escape the country. The anti-Allied posture of the Swiss government at the time was understandable in a historical context; Switzerland was not self-sufficient, and depended on foreign imports to survive. Neutral states are not required to restrict private citizens from selling munitions or equipment that contribute to the war effort of a belligerent nation, however, they cannot restrict commerce to one belligerent and allow it with another. By the passing of exclusive treaties, the Swiss government did effectively restrict nearly all trade with the Allies, while at the same time providing loans, munitions and key industrial components for the Axis. This clearly violated their neutral status, although this decision probably preserved their political sovereignty and territorial integrity."
https://www.quora.com/What-were-the-conditions-like-in-the-Swiss-internment-camps-for-downed-American-airmen-during-WW2
Brookwood
What were the conditions like in the Swiss internment camps for downed American airmen during WW2?
"Once in the custody of the Swiss government, American airmen were considered “internees.” Internees are treated almost identically to POWs under the laws of war, excepting that by definition an internee is held in a neutral state. Some other US soldiers entered Switzerland by foot, for which they earned the status of “evadee.” Evadees were not kept in camps, and could come and go as they pleased. Internees, on the other hand, were usually restricted to a specific area and kept under guard. The Swiss were determined to adhere strictly to the rules governing internees, largely because they were under constant threat of invasion by the German Army. Any hint of impartiality toward the Allies could have incurred dire consequences for a state that professed neutrality, particularly one surrounded completely by the Axis. USAAF personnel caught attempting escape were punished severely, sometimes well beyond the limits stipulated in the laws of war. The Swiss government’s policy toward neutrality was clearly illustrated by the fact that some USAAF bombers attempting to land in Switzerland were attacked by Swiss fighters and anti-aircraft weapons.
After landing in Switzerland, interned crewmembers were typically interrogated and then quarantined for a short period before movement to a permanent internment camp. The first permanent internment facility was established at Adelboden, and others soon followed in Wengen and Davos. Several “punishment” or concentration camps were also established to house internees undergoing disciplinary punishment, normally for attempting escape. These camps included Straflager Wauwilermoos, Hünenburg, Les Diablerets and Greppen. Wauwilermoos was the most notorious of the punishment camps, due to deplorable camp conditions and a fanatical Swiss Army commander. Incarceration in such facilities grew dramatically after the Allied invasion of France, mainly because of the increased prospect of escape to Allied lines.
Despite the severe treatment that some internees received at the hands of the Swiss government, the overwhelming majority of Swiss citizens were sympathetic to the Allied cause. Many Swiss citizens risked punishment or exile by helping American airmen to escape the country. The anti-Allied posture of the Swiss government at the time was understandable in a historical context; Switzerland was not self-sufficient, and depended on foreign imports to survive. Neutral states are not required to restrict private citizens from selling munitions or equipment that contribute to the war effort of a belligerent nation, however, they cannot restrict commerce to one belligerent and allow it with another. By the passing of exclusive treaties, the Swiss government did effectively restrict nearly all trade with the Allies, while at the same time providing loans, munitions and key industrial components for the Axis. This clearly violated their neutral status, although this decision probably preserved their political sovereignty and territorial integrity."
https://www.quora.com/What-were-the-conditions-like-in-the-Swiss-internment-camps-for-downed-American-airmen-during-WW2
Brookwood
Factual history really bites, don't it? I'll remember this the next time I chow down on Swiss chocolate and read the lauding of Swiss Lugers and Schmidt-Rubin rifles on CGN.
"I can handle my enemies. It's my 'friends' that I need help with".
"I can handle my enemies. It's my 'friends' that I need help with".
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Still nice Lugers, brilliant rifles, and tasty chocolate, Sharps.
No one has a spotless history. Not even us.
No one has a spotless history. Not even us.
Amen. Just ask any of the indigenous people of North and South America, and colonies of any European Empire for a start.
An interesting read about the Portuguese in India:
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Afonso-de-Albuquerque
Last edited:
