Best NR rifle

For reloaders and high volume shooters especially,

The Swiss Arms is a great choice.

-Stays very clean because excess gas escapes through ports

-If it's a 1/7 twist, you can load the longer bullets, there's more room in the SAN magazine vs the STANAG magazine

-Extremely reliable

-Rock solid folding stock

-Swiss quality
 
Epoxy7 said:
I wouldn't have issues with the components if it was a $1500 gun. At it's current KAC price point, yes I expect better than consumer grade DPMS parts. I expect those in an $860 DPMS oracle but not in a $3350 carbine touted as "high end". That being said, it's a niche market firearm and as this thread points out, there aren't that many overall options. Whether it's worth it or not is an individual choice.

I agree about the Tavor at sub 2K. I bought a second one at that price point.

I have a Swiss Arms PE90 target model. When I bought it, it was hard to justify the price. These days, not a chance for what they want new. They're nice but not 4K nice. Ultimately I would probably go with an ACR for my next Non restricted 223/5.56 rifle. I keep coming back to them. I kind of liked the SL8 but by the time you do it up like the PE90 or ACR, it's often more expensive than either of those options. If I saw one for a smoking deal, I would consider it. But still, I see a lot of upgraded SL8 rifles looking like ACR rifles...

My T97 has given me no issues. But... it's just a fun plinker with horrible ergonomics. If you can get one cheap, then it could be a fun plinker. But I would look at a Tavor or other options if you're looking to upgrade as there is no point putting money into a T97 rather just buying a better gun that has what you want out of the box. Often the costs to "upgrade" work out to the same or even more than as the more expensive rifle you really wanted in the first place.
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I hear you on the DPMS parts. Just not as big a deal to me as it is to you, but yes, it would be nice if it was something different. However I have run thousands of rounds through my MV, and so far, so good. I'm quite happy with it and willing to recommend it, as the other advantages over other NR firearms to me outweighs the DPMS parts.

Sadly you are right about the PE90. I don't think they are the gun to buy at $4k, but I have seen them at or below $3k used. I also have a Sig addiction, so that weighs heavily on my love and push for the PE90. I just think everyone should own Sigs, lol.

Unfortunately I haven't tried a T97, yet. I've heard that being a lefty that values my teeth, it is not the gun for me. Might just be rumours though, as I ran a Tavor with right side ejection no problem.
 
C23 said:
For reloaders and high volume shooters especially,

The Swiss Arms is a great choice.

-Stays very clean because excess gas escapes through ports

-If it's a 1/7 twist, you can load the longer bullets, there's more room in the SAN magazine vs the STANAG magazine

-Extremely reliable

-Rock solid folding stock

-Swiss quality
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and a 5 MOA POI shift if you lean the handguard on anything or use the bipod (if it has one) :)
 
caramel said:
Benelli is very good but accuracy wise for a semi the FNAR is very high in the food chain, with the right load, it's a sub MOA rifle... JP.

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beautiful rifle! good job
 
Xcr, Tavor, vz58 those are the best choices.

Xcr, my fave. Light barrel, keymod version only 7.5 lbs and well balanced. Best ergos on the planet and fully ambidextrous. Uses pistol mags and if you get tired of 223, you can easily switch to a different caliber. Some people love to hate the rifle, but the keymod and newer rifles are reliable. Plus robarms seems to be forever improving the platform. I was a sucker and bought one new. Totally worth it. If our laws were different, then it would be harder to justify, but in present reality, totally worth it. This gun IS worth more than 3 t97s or mini's. Buy one used, you won't have to look back.

Tavor, if you really want a bullpup, this is the best option imo. A good overall platform too.

Vz58. Great value here. By this used over a t97 or mini. Great value for your dollar.

Things to look out for, keltec rdb. Ambidextrous at anytime bullpup. Awesome. Can't wait till it comes to Canada.
 
I loved my swiss arms, And i have yet to find a non restricted rifle that shoots as nice, groups as nice and runs as reliable. I would kill to get my riffle back...

For .223 the the T97 come in second. it was handy if you findle #### and solve the mag feed issue its a great little carbine. The biggest issue i had was getting the SP ammo it liked for hunting yotes. SO much so I ended up selling it. the ergos were actually pretty good for me, I got banana fingers so doing the left hand reach around to the mag release while grabbing the magazine was very comfortable and easy.

Mini 14 was ...meh.... i still have one, despite my hatred for ruger.... its #3 in my quest fr a mini 14 that is issue free... so far so good, but i haven't shot it much since i bought a few years ago. I think i still own it for the sole reason of "i love my M1 carbine, but it doesn't reach out to 400m".


Iv'e tried a tavor, Its not bad, but it didn't impress me, sloppy mushy triger, everything felt to big and bulky.


VZ, another meh.... not the most reliable gun... they sure as #### are not a CZ 858, the real deal CZ 858 is like a much lighter, more handy better built SKS... its a good gun, I enjoyed it while i had it but its lack of consistent grouping capacity at range left me uninterested in it after a year.

XCR l/m good rifles, the latter gens are rock solid. mine grouped very well, ran very well, and never had issues. BUt man heavy as hell. In the end that was the deal breaker... I don't want to pack a 15LB gun to shoot piddly .308 when humping up and down mountains.

M1 (auto ordinance) this is my baby... other then a small issue with magazine reliability that is solved by dropping in a USGI mag release this gun is rock solid. sub 200 its a tack driver and i can put it reliably on steel out to 300m. its cheap to shoot, soft recoil, #### simple to reload for. with reloads I think you can get the cost down to less than 30 cents a round, even less if you cast your own projectiles. good enough for deer out to about 70m
at under 6lb with a small optic. this is my go gun to throw in the truck, on my ruck, or take plinking.


LRB m25 (m1a) what a gun, cadillacs of the M!4 world... to bad mine came destroyed in transit and I ended up out $1500 after a 2 year escipade.... so other then shooting a friends I don't have a lot of time on it...... but the one i shot was a tac driver, but once again... heavy....

IVe owned other guns like the RFB, FAMEA 542, M305 but i don't realy have anything good to say about them
 
After reading this whole thread I feel like everyone has kind of touched on the answer just by giving their own Opinions. The Best Gun will always be the one you have with you. Thats kind of a universal truth. Everyone's pick will be different, Someone hunting Coyotes in Saskatchewan may have a different opinion on the best NR rifle to someone hunting hunting dear in the mountains in BC, we take weight, ergonomics, caliber into consideration. And in reality most of us know the truth, if our laws werent so screwed up pretty much all of our answers would be the same... The AR15.

Maybe one day...
 
I have tested the POI shift on a Black Special.

When I load the bipod, it brings my POI almost exactly 1 MOA up.

There are pros and cons with everything.

If you get a good deal , I believe it's one of the best NR platforms.

Many Americans can only dream of a 100% Swiss made PE90.

l3364.jpg


It's very easy to mount a scope on the flat top version.

I couldn't fit the 75gr AMAX in a AR, but my 1/7 Black Special loves them.
 
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Wow another one of these threads. I've owned them all at one point or another and they all have strengths and weaknesses. Want a cheap bullet hose? T97. If you can't make it function then I'm sorry, you're a dullard.

Want an accurate front heavy rifle for coyotes or gophers? Pick a NR ACR. Further down the list would be an XCR, Way behind the SL8 or APC

Want an expensive bullet hose that works out of the box with mini-14 accuracy? Tavor.

Want an awesome, well-built, bomb-proof rifle that has a POI shift and is hard to mount optics on? SAN.

I haven't used a Modern Shotgun yet though.

I'd be happy with a non-restricted KAC SR-15.
 
SwitchTrail said:
After reading this whole thread I feel like everyone has kind of touched on the answer just by giving their own Opinions. The Best Gun will always be the one you have with you. Thats kind of a universal truth. Everyone's pick will be different, Someone hunting Coyotes in Saskatchewan may have a different opinion on the best NR rifle to someone hunting hunting dear in the mountains in BC, we take weight, ergonomics, caliber into consideration. And in reality most of us know the truth, if our laws werent so screwed up pretty much all of our answers would be the same... The AR15.

Maybe one day...
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I largly agree with this, but my final answer would still be the ACR even if the AR was an option.
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
Wow another one of these threads. I've owned them all at one point or another and they all have strengths and weaknesses. Want a cheap bullet hose? T97. If you can't make it function then I'm sorry, you're a dullard.

Want an accurate front heavy rifle for coyotes or gophers? Pick a NR ACR. Further down the list would be an XCR, Way behind the SL8 or APC

Want an expensive bullet hose that works out of the box with mini-14 accuracy? Tavor.

Want an awesome, well-built, bomb-proof rifle that has a POI shift and is hard to mount optics on? SAN.

I haven't used a Modern Shotgun yet though.

I'd be happy with a non-restricted KAC SR-15.
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Same for me for most of this. My Swiss Arms Classic Green flat top was not so lucky and I had nearly 5 moa shift when sitting on the bipod compared to resting on the magazine.
My Modern Hunter is close to 1 moa, I'm still working on my handloads for it and it looks like it should be fairly consistent just under 1 moa once I do a little more fine tuning.

The best rifle is the one that you can afford that does what you intend to do with it. If you want long range bench shooting accuracy you want an HK SL8 or ACR, if you want a rifle you can do 3 gun with a Tavor/X95 may be better suited, if you only have $1000 then maybe a KelTek SU-16 or T97, If you must have a battle proven platform where accuracy is important but 2 moa is good enough and don't like bullpups then maybe a Swiss Arms. Point is that most rifles are good at something but few are good at everything, this goes for motorcycles, cars, boats, etc, everything is a compromise and has it's strengths and weaknesses. Everyone is going to have a different opinion and in the big picture none are wrong if what they have works for them. The only people I would ignore the opinion of are the guys that have never owned anything other than the one rifle they are saying is the best. I've owned most of the non restricted we have available and I've stuck with the ACR and an AR-180B, take it for what it's worth but between those two rifles most of my 223 shooting needs are met, I'm lucky enough to have been doing this for quite a few years now and also have high end bolt actions and other non restricted and restricted options in my gun safe so no matter what I'm shooting at I have something that fits the requirements.


onetwentyish said:
I largly agree with this, but my final answer would still be the ACR even if the AR was an option.
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If they were the same price I would agree but even though I love my ACR I don't think it's worth double the cost of a decent AR. It really doesn't do anything better than an AR with a decent barrel and the couple places where the ergonomics are improved over an AR it's nothing you can't simply overcome with training. I've never found the AR to be cumbersome or awkward to operate even if the ACR is slightly improved.
 
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LordEvilPepper said:
VZ, another meh.... not the most reliable gun... they sure as #### are not a CZ 858, the real deal CZ 858 is like a much lighter, more handy better built SKS... its a good gun, I enjoyed it while i had it but its lack of consistent grouping capacity at range left me uninterested in it after a year.
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CZ designed vz58 and made it for military, then, using existing parts, made semis for civ market. They no longer make it.

CSA vz58 is exact copy with new parts, semi receiver and plastic furniture vs beaver wood. It is actually lighter. I had both. There is no difference, besides welding spot in the CZ where select fire group is supposed to be. I kept CSA and sold CZ.

It is a 2 MOA rifle with Barnaul and norinco ammo. Going on 2K and zero malfunctions. If I had to keep one that would be it. My second choice would be Tavor and only because it's a ##### to clean. SAN is too heavy, may be I need to get some upper body strength.

P.s. There was another US importer of parts kits, century Arms I think, those rifles give vz a bad name.
 
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