Blowing Up Guns

I accidentally blew up my Type 97 by pouring the wrong powder into the wrong hopper (titegroup instead of IMR 1320) Thankfully the gun was strong enough to blow out away from my face. Had I shot my AR, I would have done some serious damage to myself.
 
Andy did a test on an old Eatons Carcano... intentional overloads to see if the "these are not safe guns to shoot" reputation was true.
IIRC it held together over multiple overloads. Thread is on here somewhere...
 
Wish I could remember the source but it was about trying to blow up one of the Japanese Arisaka WW2 rifles. It took MANY attempts and if I remember, it was near impossible with severe overloads, to blow the thing apart.
 
My buddy blew apart his shotgun. It was a semi, he assembled it wrong, and after a few shots the cap on the end of the mag tube holding everything together stripped, barrel came off, mangled some parts...

To this day he thinks it was the gun, but I'm 99% sure he put a plastic spacer that's part of the gas system between the barrel and the cap for the mag tube so the cap wasn't threaded on all the way (only the last 1/3 of the threads were stripped)
 
Wish I could remember the source but it was about trying to blow up one of the Japanese Arisaka WW2 rifles. It took MANY attempts and if I remember, it was near impossible with severe overloads, to blow the thing apart.

PO Ackley did quite a bit of that, but so did US Ordinance.

Weatherby had some extreme testing done on the Mark V when it was new.

Proof testing of the Mark V action[edit]
Weatherby had intended that the new action would be the safest and strongest bolt action available. The rifle was marketed as the "The World's Strongest Bolt Action". The Mark V action has been tested to be able to contain up to 200,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure).[5]

The testing of the rifle was conducted on a production rifle chambered for the .300 Weatherby Magnum. Before testing was to be conducted, very thorough measurements of the rifle were taken so as to provide a benchmark for the testing which was to be undertaken.[6]

The first test was conducted using a 180 gr (12 g) bullet propelled by 82 gr (5.3 g) of Du Pont #4350 powder. This load provided 65,000 psi (4,500 bar) of pressure. This load did not show any pressure or extraction issues with the new Mark V action but caused a slight sticking of the cartridge case in the Mauser style rifle design. Subsequent testing was performed using the same 180 gr (12 g) bullet and using a powder charge of Du Pont #4350 which increased by increments of 2 gr (0.13 g) for each test thereafter.[3]

The second testing which was conducted with the 84 gr (5.4 g) showed no signs of pressure nor issues with extraction even though the measured pressure was close to 75,000 psi (5,200 bar). Firing this load in the Mauser rifle led to a blown primer and extreme difficulty was experienced in extracting the spent case.[3]

Using 86 gr (5.6 g) of Du Pont #4350 the cartridge began to show signs of pressure in the Mark V action. However, the case did not stick and extraction was performed easily. Breach pressure was found to be between 85,000–95,000 psi (5,900–6,600 bar). Measurements of the spent case showed that the case had stretched at the belt a mere .0005 in (0.013 mm).[3]

The spent case from the 88 gr (5.7 g) test led to a slightly sticking case, which in turn led to a slight difficulty in opening of the bolt. Measurements from the case belt showed that the belt had expanded from .533 in (13.5 mm) to .535 in (13.6 mm). The pressure generated by this load was 100,000 psi (6,900 bar).

The fifth test was conducted used a load of 90 gr (5.8 g) of Du Pont 4350. Firing this load led to some difficulty in opening the bolt, and the case was extracted when opened. The belt of the case still measured .535 in (13.6 mm). A difference in the diameter between the bolt head and the diameter of the barrel of .002 in (0.051 mm) per side was noted. No bulging of the bolt, receiver or the barrel was noted. Headspace was measured to be the same as prior to the testing.[3]

Further testing was conducted with a 180 gr (12 g) bullet lodged into the throat of the barrel. A cartridge loaded with the standard charge of 78 gr (5.1 g) of Du Pont 4350 and a 180 gr (12 g) bullet was fired into the back of the first bullet. It was found that both bullets exited the barrel. The primer had been pierced and the exiting gas entered into the bolt and hit the firing pin sleeve, which was loosened slightly. The bolt was opened by hand but the cartridge stayed stuck in the chamber. When the case was tapped out, it was found to be in good condition except for its pierced primer. It was found that the barrel, just in front of the receiver ring, had expanded from 1.147 in (29.1 mm) to 1.1496 in (29.20 mm). The diameter of the bolt head had expanded from .7178 in (18.23 mm) to .7190 in (18.26 mm). The head space had increased from .2163 in (5.49 mm) to .2174 in (5.52 mm). All other dimensions had stayed constant. This test was conducted 15 times. A test was conducted with a 220 gr (14 g) bullet lodged into the bore of the rifle and a 180 gr (12 g) grain bullet was fired into the back of this bullet. The result of this test found that the cartridge case head had expanded to .545 in (13.8 mm). After these additional 15 tests it was found that the head space was set back only a mere .001 in (0.025 mm)
 
For those not familiar with him, Julian Hatcher wound up as the US Army's chief of ordnance and put out a number of books on small arms. (Classic texts and well worth having, if they are still in print.) He covered exploding firearms in several books, including a series of tests in which he deliberately tried to get service weapons to fail. One of these tests involved turning down a rifle barrel bit by bit on a lathe (it went, eventually).

Ganderite - in answer to your question, Hatcher's Notebook describes a series of tests he did concerning the failure of some WW1-era Springfield rifles, a modern Mauser action. He found that a combination of very soft case brass and improper heat treatment of the receivers, which had left them weak and brittle, would cause catastrophic failure. The heat treatment was changed and the problem was resolved. I guess that would be not-quite-modern in terms of material? The design was certainly modern enough.

Anyway, just for giggles, a sketch Hatcher included in his Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers. Low pressure rounds, to be sure, but still...



(Not sure why that image isn't clearer. Sorry.)
 
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When I joined CIL (ammo R&D) I was taken to the lab library and given a number of books to read, including Mann's "The Bullets Flight" and "Hatchers notebook". My boss did not want me reinventing any wheels. he was of the opinion that just about everything was already known.

I still have those books, and some others.

Hatcher is a must read for anyone interested in shooting. How high will a bullet go? Read Hatcher. He went to a mud flat and shot rifles strainfghgt up. Bullets were timed until they hit the mud. They hit base first, by the way.
 
When I joined CIL (ammo R&D) I was taken to the lab library and given a number of books to read, including Mann's "The Bullets Flight" and "Hatchers notebook". My boss did not want me reinventing any wheels. he was of the opinion that just about everything was already known.

I still have those books, and some others.

Hatcher is a must read for anyone interested in shooting. How high will a bullet go? Read Hatcher. He went to a mud flat and shot rifles strainfghgt up. Bullets were timed until they hit the mud. They hit base first, by the way.

For those interested, hatchers book is available free online here. https://murdercube.com/files/Firearms/Hatchers Notebook.pdf

Originally published by .gov, the book now appears to be considered rights free and in the public domain. Some publishers are still printing hardcopies.
 
Blew up an ancient old Iver Johnson 12 gauge single shot with a modern 12 gauge slug shell.
We taped it to the bench and used a string wrapped round the trigger to discharge the gun.
Split the barrel.
Got a camera for it at Henrys a few years back.
 
Blew up an ancient old Iver Johnson 12 gauge single shot with a modern 12 gauge slug shell.
We taped it to the bench and used a string wrapped round the trigger to discharge the gun.
Split the barrel.
Got a camera for it at Henrys a few years back.

Was that a gun amnesty turn in? I know a few people sitting on broken junk waiting for the next opportunity to get above market value for their garbage.
 
Ganderite wrote: "We deliberately shot the wrong caliber ammo in rifles, many times. It never caused much of a problem."

Back in the day when Arisaka Carbines were CHEAP, say around $5 with a shot out bore and beat to hell, a friend of mine and I decided to duplicate a P.O. Ackley test. I had met Mr. Ackley and can attest that he was not only very curious/well heeled/complete gentleman. He was famous for testing the strengths of different rifles for comparison purposes and because his company used so many milsurp as well as commercial actions to build various custom rifles of all sorts of calibers and multiple cosmetic changes.

He did a series of famous tests on WWII bolt action surplus firearms. Of all of them the Type 38 Arisaka turned out to be the strongest. It turned out the Mauser 98/Springfield 03/Enfield actions were approximately equal in strength when all things were equal condition wise.

What he did was rechamber a Type 38 with a 30-06 reamer in a 6.5mm bore. Then he tried to create a condition where a catastrophic failure would occur. He couldn't succeed in destroying the action beyond use.

He went so far as to load a 30-06 case with 2400 powder under a 165grn bullet and igniting this cartridge in the Arisaka action. What resulted was a very fast burn within the chamber causing extreme pressures. The pressures were so high that the extreme heat created will the combustion occurred caused the cartridge case to melt and flow out the vent holes and back around the bolt head. The bullet did exit the bore, after being swaged to 6.5mm. Whether this would have happened with steel core ammunition is another question. The stock was completely shattered as well.

After screwing out the barrel Mr Ackley was able to remove the bolt so that he could magnaflux and XRay the receiver as well as the bolt. The bolt handle had been broken off in a previous attempt to open it.

What his after test inspections revealed was that the receiver was not only intact but sound enough to use as a hunting rifle base. He built up a sporter on it and gave it to a good friend.

Now, my friend and I decided to duplicate his test. The only differences were that we used a carbine, rather than a rifle and our carbine was in FAIR condition only, with a deeply ground off crest. We went through the same process of chambering, including duplicating the 30-06 chamber in front of a 6.5mm bore. The other difference was that we didn't have access to an area where we could do the test in an enclosed area with the rifle held in a vice/cradle. We had a truck tire that we tied the rifle to and fired it with a piece of twine from about 25 feet away. In hind sight further would have been better. No we weren't injured.

Our results were exactly the same as Mr Ackley's. About a year later I took the barrel off the receiver and did a magnaflux test on the bolt /receiver. It looked good, so I built a nice little 257 Roberts on the action. This wasn't difficult because back in those days Sherwood had all sorts of after market parts available, including threaded/contoured barrels that needed the final chambering/headspace done, stocks, commercial contour bolt handles as well as sights or scope mounts. There was a whole culture of bubbas out there and in all honesty it was a lot of fun.

Ganderites OP brought this 40+ year old memory back. Thanks. My time with Mr Ackley was very interesting as well as enjoyable. I almost wish I had taken up his offer of and apprenticeship.
 
Andy did a test on an old Eatons Carcano... intentional overloads to see if the "these are not safe guns to shoot" reputation was true.
IIRC it held together over multiple overloads. Thread is on here somewhere...

That is true. I also did a test but not on a refurb/custom rifle. I used an as is milsurp rifle. Carcano rifles were cheap and mostly under appreciated at the time, just like Arisakas. After several tests which produced some pretty decent velocities with the 160 grain bullets we pulled from surplus rounds to build Mexican reloads we came to the conclusion that the only reason the Italians loaded this round to such a mild standard was because it was more comfortable/manageable for their troops and plenty good enough for the ranges they were expected to be shooting at.

By the way, the bolts on those old Carcano rifles are extremely hard and not just surface hard. I modified one a while back to fit into a Type II Japanese contract Carcano. My carbide cutters were next to useless. I ended up grinding it out with special cutting wheels. Opening the bolt face for the 6.5Jap case head was a real chore. The action is very strong and capable of far more than the 6.5 Jap requires of it.
 
I bought an NEA15 chambered in 7.62x39 last year. On the 5th round the barrel extension shattered, bolt snapped in half and cam pin broke into pieces. Still not 100% sure what happened, the info I received from a rep at NEA was that the bolt/barrel extension material was to blame. Fun times.
 
Blew up an ancient old Iver Johnson 12 gauge single shot with a modern 12 gauge slug shell.
We taped it to the bench and used a string wrapped round the trigger to discharge the gun.
Split the barrel.
Got a camera for it at Henrys a few years back.

How old was that shotgun? Blackpowder era?

I ask because the SAAMI specs generally take into account old firearms, hence why the 6.5x55mm loads are so low powered in America to match the Krag rifles, not just the Mauser actions.
 
I have a S&W 66 6" bbl with two slight bulges. It shoots fine, but is an indication of likely two squibs being boosted out.

I was shooting gophers with my Beretta AM301. I was shooting off a bunch of old reloads and one went off with a bigger bang than anything I've ever fired. I checked the gun over carefully and it was okay.

I have never tried to blow a gun up - yet. :evil:
 
How old was that shotgun? Blackpowder era?

I ask because the SAAMI specs generally take into account old firearms, hence why the 6.5x55mm loads are so low powered in America to match the Krag rifles, not just the Mauser actions.

Shotguns are a different ball game. If it was chambered for 2-1/2, blackpowder, really tight choke, poor condition, etc. They don't generate much pressure but they tend to also be very weak actions as well (hence why most dealers don't sell those chamber conversion shotgun shells for say 30-06 as people were blowing up shotguns).
 
Shotguns are a different ball game. If it was chambered for 2-1/2, blackpowder, really tight choke, poor condition, etc. They don't generate much pressure but they tend to also be very weak actions as well (hence why most dealers don't sell those chamber conversion shotgun shells for say 30-06 as people were blowing up shotguns).

Shotgun shells still require the same specs as rifles when it comes to standards in manufacturing. SAAMI specifies the maximum load for a 2 3/4", 3" and 3 1/2" 12ga shell. The chamber pressure max for both 2 3/4" and 3" are identical, the 3 1/2" is the only place where the pressure max increased. If your gun was designed for smokeless powder and has a 2 3/4" non-modified chamber length and in good condition then any modern ammunition will be safe in that gun, they are designed to be. Rifled shotgun slugs are made up of very soft lead and are designed to fit through a full choke no problem, if they split the barrel on a modern smokeless proofed gun with a standard rifled slug then something else was seriously wrong.

I know shotguns are a different animal, I shoot one from 1912, 1 from 1928, 1 from the 30s and another from the 50s, I shoot any load in them that fits the chamber length and containing lead only.
 
Ammo mart (the forefather of Higginsons powder's) years ago made a shipment of surplus blc2 powder to Calgary. It was divided up among some guys who did a group buy. It blew up several rifles, I know of a Rem. 700 based Benchrest rifle and an AR-15. The powder turned out to be a pistol powder.

When the owner of Ammo mart was phoned with all the complaints, he had the exact same answer for everyone. It was "send me a bill for the repair or the rifle if unrepairable." I wonder if Hodgdons would be so responsible?

Ganderite, you should write a book about your shooting experiences.
 
Ammo mart (the forefather of Higginsons powder's) years ago made a shipment of surplus blc2 powder to Calgary. It was divided up among some guys who did a group buy. It blew up several rifles, I know of a Rem. 700 based Benchrest rifle and an AR-15. The powder turned out to be a pistol powder.

When the owner of Ammo mart was phoned with all the complaints, he had the exact same answer for everyone. It was "send me a bill for the repair or the rifle if unrepairable." I wonder if Hodgdons would be so responsible?

Ganderite, you should write a book about your shooting experiences.


The mix up you describe would make a powder seller sick. An American dealer would expect to get sued, more than once.

When it happens in Canada, the complaints tend to be polite and factual and the dealer is delighted to get off so lightly with just replacing the damaged rifle.

As for writing a book - I am. A few lines at a time, published here....
 
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