Neck annealing experience?

[Chilly807]

I'm giving some thought to starting to anneal bottleneck cartridge necks. Yes, I'm a relatively new reloader.
I've been experimenting with some scrap brass, using a propane torch and a version of the Hornady annealing kit (now discontinued it seems).
The holder I built is an aluminum sleeve which covers the bottom 2/3 of the case, both holding it loosely and protecting the bottom from the flame. It has a 1/4" diameter mandrel inserted in the closed end to allow it to be chucked in a cordless drill.
My routine is this, place a polished but otherwise unprocessed piece of brass in the holder, and a propane torch (not a turbo torch) in a set of vise jaws. While turning the brass at a medium slow speed, expose the neck and shoulder to the flame, keeping the blue flame tip about 1/4 to 1/2" from the brass. After about 7-8 seconds, tip the hot brass into a cup of cold water to stop the process.
The results I'm getting look exactly like a piece of new Lapua brass. There are no signs of any heat transfer to the base of the case, in fact the bottom 2/3 shows no heat signs at all. The top 1/3 is a medium gold colour, in contrast to the bright yellow brass colour of the rest of the case.
I'm thinking it's about right, what are your thoughts and past experiences with annealing brass?
My interests in annealing are to maintain more consistent neck tension and extend brass life, within reason of course. Possibly annealing every 3-4 reload cycles. I'm talking low volume here, maybe 20 cases at a time. Cartridges are .243 Win, practice cases have been .308 so far.
I'll add some pics tonight if the hosting situation behaves itself.

 

[yomomma]

For consistent neck tension you have to have consistent annealing.

 

[FirearmsEnthusiast]

Consider getting some Tempilaq temperature indicating paint - 750 for the necks and a lower temp for the case heads - to ensure that the neck is heated sufficiently to anneal, while also not annealing the case head (softening the case in this area can be dangerous) - several good articles available online on use of Tempilaq for this...Google it.

 

[Ryan.M.Anderson]

I tried the Tempilaq and find it ended up going clear very fast.

If you google "Primal Rights Annealing" a video should pop up that is fairly descriptive.

I ended up using tips from that video.

 

[mark222]

Sounds like you're on the right path, no need for the water treatment though. I've lost count of how many times I've posted this link, but it's a good one.

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

 

[Chilly807]

Sounds like you're on the right path, no need for the water treatment though. I've lost count of how many times I've posted this link, but it's a good one.

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

I'd agree that it doesn't have any effect on the annealing of the neck, I'm quenching primarily to avoid heat transfer to the rest of the case.
The problem I see with the Tempilaq is that the only place to apply it to the neck is on the inside. Direct flame will immediately liquefy it. With a small caliber it's not easy to see inside the case neck, especially on a rotating case.
Since there's no direct flame in that area, the Tempilaq application on the body of the case is a good idea if you're not sure how hot the case is getting. Anything less than 450°F isn't an issue, especially for short term exposure. My total heat exposure time per case is less than ten seconds.
I've done quite a bit of research over the past little while on home annealing. I did want to start a conversation on annealing on this forum though, there's a lot of people with a lot of experience here. There's almost always something to be learned once an exchange of information gets rolling like this one has.
Thanks for the input guys (girls?), keep it coming!

 

[ryan]

I usually don't encourage new reloaders to anneal. Stick with the basics until you master them. Unless you are a precision shooter, the benefits are negligible. Plenty of time for the fiddly stuff down the road.

 

[prairie lover]

Get 750 degree templac and your good to go

 

[mark222]

I'd agree that it doesn't have any effect on the annealing of the neck, I'm quenching primarily to avoid heat transfer to the rest of the case.
The problem I see with the Tempilaq is that the only place to apply it to the neck is on the inside. Direct flame will immediately liquefy it. With a small caliber it's not easy to see inside the case neck, especially on a rotating case.
Since there's no direct flame in that area, the Tempilaq application on the body of the case is a good idea if you're not sure how hot the case is getting. Anything less than 450°F isn't an issue, especially for short term exposure. My total heat exposure time per case is less than ten seconds.
I've done quite a bit of research over the past little while on home annealing. I did want to start a conversation on annealing on this forum though, there's a lot of people with a lot of experience here. There's almost always something to be learned once an exchange of information gets rolling like this one has.
Thanks for the input guys (girls?), keep it coming!

If you're keeping the flame on the neck for an appropriate amount of time, you won't have excessive heat transfer to the body of the case, and they cool very quickly, so water is not required at all. Try annealing a case as you usually would, then, without quenching, feel the body after a few seconds.

 

[mark222]

I usually don't encourage new reloaders to anneal. Stick with the basics until you master them. Unless you are a precision shooter, the benefits are negligible. Plenty of time for the fiddly stuff down the road.

An immediate benefit is improved case life. My loads are also more accurate, but even if they weren't, it's worth it for the increased use I get from cases.

 

[FirearmsEnthusiast]

I usually don't encourage new reloaders to anneal. Stick with the basics until you master them. Unless you are a precision shooter, the benefits are negligible. Plenty of time for the fiddly stuff down the road.

I do agree with this perspective - there are several other aspects of reloading to master before annealing. For example, case trimming and deburring, neck sizing, flash hole deburring and buying a basic concentricty gauge are all good intermediate steps. Annealing does extend brass life, which becomes important when you invest in good (Lapua, Norma) brass.

I also agree that consistency is very important - I held off annealing and saved up until I could afford an Annie induction annealer (about $500) - it is a digitally controlled unit - very precise and consistent...no screwing around with open flame or case rotation speed. May be worth delaying and saving up for something like this.

Amortized over 5-10 years, the extended case life means that it would pay for itself...

Just an idea...

 

[rral22]

I usually don't encourage new reloaders to anneal. Stick with the basics until you master them. Unless you are a precision shooter, the benefits are negligible. Plenty of time for the fiddly stuff down the road.

I would have said that, but he already did.

 

[RonR]

... Yes, I'm a relatively new reloader...My interests in annealing are to maintain more consistent neck tension and extend brass life, within reason of course. Possibly annealing every 3-4 reload cycles. I'm talking low volume here, maybe 20 cases at a time. Cartridges are .243 Win, practice cases have been .308 so far.
I'll add some pics tonight if the hosting situation behaves itself.

I was where you were about 6 months ago. Limited experience compared to some of those posting but my methods aren't much different than yours. I have a thread on here as well on the subject and Yodave helped me out a lot with interpretation of the results. My repeatability may not be as consistent as a machine made to purpose but for my needs...it will do.

Annealing for myself was necessary based on inconsistent neck tension after 3 to 4 firings (7mm-08). Seating force was extremely variable so I stepped into this. If bullets didn't move around after some handling at the range one day, showing itself, I wouldn't have gotten into it. There are many experienced here that are very much correct IMO in recommending looking at other things, but my experience shows annealing fixed many inconsistencies with my reloads.

My reloads are more concentric and have more consistent/repeatable seating force and bullet retention. Adjusting dies and reduced mandrel size did not correct matters. YMMV.

I believe you are on the right path...but for the record I'm a hunter delving into the "how good" I can get it way of things right now.

For consistent neck tension you have to have consistent annealing.

I am a firm believer in this now. Everyone's mileage varies.

Consider getting some Tempilaq temperature indicating paint - 750 for the necks and a lower temp for the case heads - to ensure that the neck is heated sufficiently to anneal, while also not annealing the case head (softening the case in this area can be dangerous) - several good articles available online on use of Tempilaq for this...Google it.

Get 750 degree templac and your good to go

Great advice. Yodave helped with interpretation of reading the results in the thread I asked for help on.

Regards
Ronr

 

[GreenBob]

good info - tagged.

 

[lwing]

I tried the Tempilaq and find it ended up going clear very fast.

If you google "Primal Rights Annealing" a video should pop up that is fairly descriptive.

I ended up using tips from that video.

This was great info for me also

 

[Chilly807]

This was great info for me also

Yes, some good information there in the Primal Rights video. After looking at quite a few YouTube vids on the "correct" way to anneal brass, it's a wonder some of them have any fingers left..

This is what I'm getting for results. These are 4-times fired 243 Win brass, all are R-P if I remember correctly.

My interests are similar, RonR. I don't shoot serious competition at the moment, which isn't to say I won't at some point. Getting the best accuracy out of an already accurate rifle is it's own reward. I'll say this, reloading for accuracy is a far more addictive game than some realize.



NOT sent from my iPhone!