Hirtenberger x51 brass sizing

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NaviDave

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Based on the Wilson case gauge, the Redding full length .308 die cannot bump the shoulder back far enough.

Is a small base die the fix? Commercial Remingon and FC brass is fine (drops in as far as Norinco x51).

Any insights would be appreciated.

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Ganderite said:
I have never used a guage. I use the rifle. Does that case chamber ok? If so, it is GTG (so long as it is not too long).
Click to expand...

You mean as long as it is not too short, right? If it's too long, it won't chamber. If it's too short, you can have ignition, case head separation, and/or overpressure.
 
The difference is quite small. M14 Doctor worked it over - nothing out of spec.

The internet basically tells you that it is gonna grenade unless the ammo is perfect. I will load some 1F commercial brass with 41gr of IMR4198 / 150gr Hornady and see what happens. I used CCI 34 primers and they are well below flush. I trimmed to 2.005".

Eye protection mandatory!

I'll pick up a Redding small base die at some point...
 
A SB die reduces the diameter near the head, more than a standard FL die does. Unless it is the diameter of the sized case in the area near the head that is keeping the case from entering the gauge all the way, a SB die will be a waste of time and money.
Do the case chamber cleanly in the rifle?
 
I will load up one with no primer/powder tonight and see how it chambers. The Redding sb body die bumps the shoulder back (without touching the neck?).

I have a Redding Ultramag press and had the Redding FL die bottomed out. The HB brass must just be tougher or it springs back more than commercial.
 
My M305 has about +6 thou of extra headspace. The last thing I would want to do is bump the shoulder back even further.

In fact, I had a case maker make me 5,000 cases with an extra 5 thou of headspace. They are very hard to chamber in most rifles, but perfect for the M305s.
 
Alpheus said:
You mean as long as it is not too short, right? If it's too long, it won't chamber. If it's too short, you can have ignition, case head separation, and/or overpressure.
Click to expand...

NO. I meant exactly what I said.

Obviously his case is not too short. We can see it in the gauge, sticking out a bit.

If it chambers ok, the extra bit of headspace of the case will not matter. It might even be better for the M305. So, he is GTG, unless the case is too long (stretching). If the neck is too long it can pinch the bullet and make a pipe bomb.
 
Ganderite said:
NO. I meant exactly what I said.

Obviously his case is not too short. We can see it in the gauge, sticking out a bit.

If it chambers ok, the extra bit of headspace of the case will not matter. It might even be better for the M305. So, he is GTG, unless the case is too long (stretching). If the neck is too long it can pinch the bullet and make a pipe bomb.
Click to expand...

Oh, I thought you were referring to the headspace, not the overall case length.
 
NaviDave said:
I will load up one with no primer/powder tonight and see how it chambers. The Redding sb body die bumps the shoulder back (without touching the neck?).

I have a Redding Ultramag press and had the Redding FL die bottomed out. The HB brass must just be tougher or it springs back more than commercial.
Click to expand...

Yes, body dies don't touch the case neck. The brass won't spring back enough the cause your issue.
You can either try another body die or a FL die, get special shellholders like the Redding set, or you could grind a few thou off the bottom of the body die (not recommended as it makes the die specific to that rifle and ruins any re-sale value.)
 
Yes - I just tend to accumulate more and more dies.

I have a buncha stuff to list on the EE if I ever get the time...

I turn 45 tomorrow and want to finally fire the M305 and two 45's (G21 and XDM-45).
 
Alpheus said:
A small base die won't necessarily bump the shoulder back more. Look into Redding competition shellholder sets.
Click to expand...

Redding competition shell holders do not push the case as far into the die and a standard shell holder. Meaning "LESS" shoulder bump.

And a small base die reduces case diameter approximately .003 more than a standard die and "also" pushes the shoulder back .003 more than a standard die. Meaning the case is reduced to minimum SAAMI dimensions.

But chambers and dies vary in size, example I have a standard Lee .223 die that sizes the case more in diameter and bumps the shoulder back more than my small base die.

I measure my "FIRED" cases with a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and then set the sizing die for minimum shoulder bump.

Below measuring a fired case from a AR15 and then the die is set up for .003 shoulder bump. Wilson type case gauges are not as accurate as the Hornady gauge because you can measure a fired case. Meaning many times a fired case will not fit and drop into the Wilson type gauge.

H0SXHH8.jpg


Below Wilson, Dillon and JP Enterprise .223 case gauges, the case gauges have a reversed case placed into the gauge. The red JP Enterprise gauge is smaller in diameter and close to SAAMI minimum diameter. I use the JP Enterprise gauge when doing a "plop" test on reloaded rounds to insure the case diameter has been reduced enough for my AR15 rifles. The case diameter after sizing for a semi-auto should be .003 to .005 smaller than its fired diameter. This allows for proper brass springback from the chamber walls and reliable extraction.

KSB3ZvP.jpg


Bottom line measure your fired cases with a Hornady gauge and adjust your dies for minimum shoulder bump. And use your Wilson type gauges as paper weights and pen holders. :evil:

Look at the variations for the .223/5.56 chambers below and why your better off knowing the "FIRED" case length before sizing.

wjAOlWq.jpg


3gDuoIx.jpg


And if your die does not push the shoulder back far enough then just lap the top of the shell holder. Lapping the shell holder a few thousandths at a time will push the case further into the die and bump the case shoulder more.

wm05ArY.gif
 
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x51_ammo.jpg

I loaded the rounds on the left and the right using commercial brass (COL ended up being 2.700 +/- 0.003. Norinco, old IVI and Federal/LC new in the middle.
 

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I lapped 0.003" off the shellholder (they are cheap and I had an extra). Problem solved!

Military brass definitely has more springback than commercial.
 
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