Hello CGN,
After a year of using this setup and 1500 rounds fired through this gunI wanted to share my experiences . There will be a comprehensive section as well as a strengths/weaknesses list to sum up at the bottom. Hopefully some of you will find this useful. If you have any questions please feel free to ask.
My setup which is being reviewed:
http://i.imgur.com/jvBlUS4.jpg
What is being reviewed:
Mossberg 590
Magpul SGA stock
Magpul SGA forend
Magpul Forward sling Mount
Magpul MS3 (Gen 1) sling
Tacstar Slimline Shell Carrier
Bonus: Score Ammunition
1. Mossberg 590
8+1, 20" Barrel, Ghost Ring Sights
When looking at pump shotguns the Mossberg vs Remington is of course a standard debate. I think both shotguns are great, having fired and used both, but in the end settled on the Mossberg for a couple reasons. In reviewing this shotgun I feel it is most useful to compare it to its biggest competitor, the Remington 870.
Mossberg Strengths
As far as combat shotguns go I do believe the Mossberg 590/590A1 are at the top of the pile. The position of the safety and slide release are, in my honest opinion, superior to the Remington. The safety is ambidextrous and located on the top. This can be operated with the thumb. The slide release is behind the trigger on the left, operated by the middle finger. The trigger finger of course is located where it should be. Using two fingers and a thumb all controls can easily be manipulated.
With the Remington 870 the safety is behind the trigger on the right side, the slide release is in front of the trigger on the left side. Both of these are manipulated with the trigger finger and I do not find it is as ergonomic. Anything can be trained of course, I believe, having used both, the Mossberg design is superior.
The open loading gate is subjective as well. I find that having a retracting shell lifter just makes things slightly easier. Having a round sometimes pop out or getting a glove pinched in the Remington shell lifter happens. Yes with practice this is of course mitigated, but having an open gate makes loading rounds in all conditions that much easier.
The extracter screw is a small thing. On the Mossberg it can be changed by the user. Remington enxtractors are retained with a pin that needs to be punched out. It is unlikely this will ever be required on either shotgun.
The Mossberg 590 has a distinct advantage where a lot of their models have a full length mag tube. By this I mean the mag tube runs the full length of the barrel (Whatever that length is). For a combat shotgun this just makes sense. Most Remington models require tube extensions to reach the same magazine capacity. So while Remington's can reach this capability is is one more thing that has to be purchased and one more thing that has to be integrated into the system.
Mossberg Weaknesses
While both guns mechanically run well, I have found the 870's have the potential to be smoother with break in and proper maintenance. There is less rattle and things just feel tighter over all.
The 870 has a steel receiver and the Mossberg has an aluminum one. Yes I know the Mossberg has steel lock up on the bolt,but the aluminum receiver is still not as rugged as the Remington steel receiver.
While both are very popular I have found that Remington 870 parts are slightly easier to come by, especially when looking at barrels. The 590/590A1 have one barrel choice, cylinder (There is a choked barrel now on the Mossberg website, but have not found one in Canada). Remington's have many barrel choices and choke options. This gives more versatility to the operator and is, in my opinion, the strongest advantage Remington has over the Mossberg.
Mossberg 590 Summation
Strengths
1. Better control manipulation
2. Open loading gate
3. Easily swapped ejector
4. Easier to find full length mag tube without extensions
Weaknesses
1. Action not as smooth as Remington 870 (Though not by a large margin)
2. Aluminum receiver
3. Aftermarket parts slightly harder to come by
4. No choke options
2.Magpul SGA Stock
As a precision shooter nothing is more important than fitting your rifle to yourself. When I got into the shotgun works I immediately sought something that could do this. I first looked into collapsible AR-15 style stocks. I found this to really not work for me. Awkward angles. Bad cheek weld. Made my hand feel very bad under recoil. The pistol grip made control manipulation difficult. All around it was not for me, nor do I recommend it to people. The only stock I could find that really appealed to me needs was the SGA stock from Magpul.
I'll be openly biased and say I love this stock. LOP and cheek comb adjustment. The grip angle is perfect for me coming from service rifles and prone style precision stocks. It allows full manipulation of the shotgun controls. The stock is stutdy, fits together perfectly and locks up well. It is rugged and easy to adjust. It has great grip as well. Personally I find it looks very sharp, but of course that is subjective. This is, I believe, the best stock on the market for Mossberg and Remington shotguns.
It is not without fault. I feel for the price you should get a little more. You have to buy a QD mount separate. You have to buy cheek risers separate in a pack of 2. For the price it would be nice if these were incorporated, at least the QD mount. The QD mount is also not the limited rotation style, which is really annoying. A QD on a sling will rotate and tangle when doing drills rapidly. This would have been a cheap fix, but they have not released anything of this nature to date.
Another annoyance is the Mossberg SGA, not the Remington one, makes it very difficult to remove the trigger group. Some people say it is impossible, but I pulled very hard and the trigger group came out so it is possible I just don't recommend it. Some guys dremel the SGA a bit, but this will leave a slight gap. I just back the screw out a quarter turn and the assembly comes out. This does require tools and makes takedown more annoying. I really wish Magpul made slight alterations to alloe for field disassembly. With a side saddle this becomes a mute point as that requires tools to remove the trigger group anyways.
Magpul SGA Summation
Strengths
1. Good grip angle
2. Adjustable LOP and cheek comb
3. Solid grip texture
4. High build quality
Weaknesses
1. Have to buy cheek comb and QD mount
2. Complicates disassembly
3. Expensive
3. Magpul MOE M-Lok Forend
The Magpul forend is inexpensive and easy to drop in. It is well built and matches the SGA stock so cosmetically it makes sense to run both. This forend is much taller than the factory one. When the barrel heats up this is a very nice feature as I found sometimes I could catch my thumb on a hot barrel. I can't speak to the mounting of accessories because I have used this feature. The front and rear stop are nice.
The forend is lacking in grip, especially when running the gun hard. It offers nothing over the factory forend in this area. Another thing to be aware of is that due to the taller design it will rub your barrel and create wear marks. I remember when I first noticed this I was very upset because my new gun had these wear marks all over it. Now I have run this gun so hard there are little "battle" marks everywhere and I don't care. If you have a safe queen shotgun please be aware of this though.
Magpul Forend Summation
Strengths
1. Tall sides protect hands
2. Front and rear stop
3. Mounts accessories
4. Matches SGA
Weaknesses
1. No grip improvement
2. Rubs barrel creating wear marks
4. Magpul Forward Sling Mount
I will come out and say I have a hate for this piece of equipment, but let's start with the good. This mount allows for a para clip or QD sling mount. It is a QD limited which is nice. It is very solid and does not move. I have run drills with it, hunted and hiked. It doesn't move. If you are running a side mount QD on the SGA this is probably your only option for a 2 point sling.
This mount uses a 1/64 screw. Why Magpul.. why not use a standard one. If you only run the QD mount you have to run the screw through about which you have to hold on the other side. This is a total pain. Even if you are running a QD sling I would recommend throwing the pars clip on the other side to make it easier to take down. This needs to be removed to disassemble the gun, another step.
This thing will scratch a blued finish. Scratch the #### out of it. The pads they supply are not sufficient. I went to Home Depot and bought some high temperature gasket wrap. I cut my own pieces to fully cover all sides of the mount. This prevents scratching, but they need to be recut and replaced a couple times a year which I do.
Magpul suggests 17 inch pounds of torque. I would not recommend this as when I did that it jammed my follower. Using the short side of a hex key tighten firmly and stop. Do not use the long side you don't need it.
Summation Sling Mount
Strengths
1. Solid mount
2. Paraclip or QD options
Weaknesses
1. Scratches barrel and Mag tube
2. Double QD is a pain to set up
3. Non-standard screw if using torque bit (not recommended)
4. Another step for disassembly.
5. Magpul MS3 Sling
I have the gen 1 Sling with the quick adjust strap. For the price I believe this is a decent sling, but I would say the VTAC is better. Construction is good. The 2 point to one point setup is easy. I bought it because it was on sale and worked with the mounting setup I wanted.
I wish the QD connector portion was longer so the sling could be tighter to the body but give enough offset to the gun. This is probably preference, but if that section was triple the length it would make for a more maneuverable sling. The loop portion would stay tight on the body which helps with different drills. I've used this sling in 2 point configuration for hiking and it work well enough.
Summation MS3 Sling
Strengths
1. 1 point and 2 point
2. Easy to use and adjust
3. High quality of materials
Weaknesses
2. QD portion is too short. When doing drills while sling moves and slides around. If this was longer the loop portion would stay tight on the body during drills and this would increase maneuverability.
6. Tacstar Slimline Sidesaddle
Have you ever been pleasantly surprised by a piece of gear? I found hardly anything online about this side saddle. I hate with a burning passion the original Tacstar Side Saddle. I've used Mesa and detachable Velcro saddles, now this is on my gun. It is very slim, easy to mount. It used rubber to hold the shells which I have never seen. The rubber bends easily, doesn't scratch, is impervious to the elements, and is solid.
When I first got this the shells were tight. So tight I couldn't get them out. I stored snap caps in them for a couple days, they loosened right up to the perfect amount. Brass up or down shells don't move. I have run 25 rounds of buckshot through my gun and they don't budge. Since it is rubber it doesn't bang around on all your kit and is very easy to work with. The best part is I bought this saddle for $40, half the price of a Mesa.
The shells are not as easy to remove as Velcro carriers, but the Velcro carriers I have used do not properly hold rounds under repeated use of slugs or buck. For me I prefer having my rounds rock solid and slightly harder to grab than the opposite, that's a preference.
Also note that this saddle uses a Chicago screw just like the Mesa. This protects the aluminum receiver and prevents it from being pinched. Tacstar learned a lot from their first saddle and in my opinion knocked this out if the park. I put a small dab of loctite 242 on the threads. 250 rounds in a day and no loosening.
Summation Tacstar Saddle
Strengths
1. Good mounting system (Chicago screw)
2. Solid shell retention
3. Rubber is unique, weather resistant, easy to work with and manipulate
4. Slim design, lightweight
5. High build quality
6. Solid Price
7. Comes with free snap cap
Weaknesses
1. Shell holders initially tight, will always be tighter than Velcro models
2. Replaces gun hardware unlike Velcro designs
3. No quick change like Velcro designs
Bonus: Score Ammunition
I started firing Score ammunition through my gun based on the price. In my area it is the cheapest shotgun ammunition I can find. It also helped that out of the major brands Score patterned second best in my gun. I use 7 1/2 shot for clays or just general drills. Between myself and shooting buddies we have fired over 1000 rounds of Score in the past two years. The slugs are the cheapest on the market, but very accurate. I use them extensively for practice with slugs. They utilize a foster style slug, which is not my preferred for bear defence, but perfect for practice. Also they are a Canadian company and I firmly believe in supporting home grown when possible.
This year I did have 2 misfires on the bird shot. The shells were tested in another shotgun and failed to fire as well so I believe it to be a primer issue. Could have been an off lot I am not really sure, for the price though 2 misfires in 1000 rounds is not terrible. I have never had a misfire on slugs or buckshot.
Summation Score
Strengths
1. Very cheap
2. Patterns well (in my gun, test your own)
3. Accurate slugs
4. Good variety of shot options
5. Canadian made
Weaknesses
1. Not flawless consistency (2 in 1000 misfire)
2. Foster style slugs are not the best for bear defence
Thank you for reading!
After a year of using this setup and 1500 rounds fired through this gunI wanted to share my experiences . There will be a comprehensive section as well as a strengths/weaknesses list to sum up at the bottom. Hopefully some of you will find this useful. If you have any questions please feel free to ask.
My setup which is being reviewed:
http://i.imgur.com/jvBlUS4.jpg
What is being reviewed:
Mossberg 590
Magpul SGA stock
Magpul SGA forend
Magpul Forward sling Mount
Magpul MS3 (Gen 1) sling
Tacstar Slimline Shell Carrier
Bonus: Score Ammunition
1. Mossberg 590
8+1, 20" Barrel, Ghost Ring Sights
When looking at pump shotguns the Mossberg vs Remington is of course a standard debate. I think both shotguns are great, having fired and used both, but in the end settled on the Mossberg for a couple reasons. In reviewing this shotgun I feel it is most useful to compare it to its biggest competitor, the Remington 870.
Mossberg Strengths
As far as combat shotguns go I do believe the Mossberg 590/590A1 are at the top of the pile. The position of the safety and slide release are, in my honest opinion, superior to the Remington. The safety is ambidextrous and located on the top. This can be operated with the thumb. The slide release is behind the trigger on the left, operated by the middle finger. The trigger finger of course is located where it should be. Using two fingers and a thumb all controls can easily be manipulated.
With the Remington 870 the safety is behind the trigger on the right side, the slide release is in front of the trigger on the left side. Both of these are manipulated with the trigger finger and I do not find it is as ergonomic. Anything can be trained of course, I believe, having used both, the Mossberg design is superior.
The open loading gate is subjective as well. I find that having a retracting shell lifter just makes things slightly easier. Having a round sometimes pop out or getting a glove pinched in the Remington shell lifter happens. Yes with practice this is of course mitigated, but having an open gate makes loading rounds in all conditions that much easier.
The extracter screw is a small thing. On the Mossberg it can be changed by the user. Remington enxtractors are retained with a pin that needs to be punched out. It is unlikely this will ever be required on either shotgun.
The Mossberg 590 has a distinct advantage where a lot of their models have a full length mag tube. By this I mean the mag tube runs the full length of the barrel (Whatever that length is). For a combat shotgun this just makes sense. Most Remington models require tube extensions to reach the same magazine capacity. So while Remington's can reach this capability is is one more thing that has to be purchased and one more thing that has to be integrated into the system.
Mossberg Weaknesses
While both guns mechanically run well, I have found the 870's have the potential to be smoother with break in and proper maintenance. There is less rattle and things just feel tighter over all.
The 870 has a steel receiver and the Mossberg has an aluminum one. Yes I know the Mossberg has steel lock up on the bolt,but the aluminum receiver is still not as rugged as the Remington steel receiver.
While both are very popular I have found that Remington 870 parts are slightly easier to come by, especially when looking at barrels. The 590/590A1 have one barrel choice, cylinder (There is a choked barrel now on the Mossberg website, but have not found one in Canada). Remington's have many barrel choices and choke options. This gives more versatility to the operator and is, in my opinion, the strongest advantage Remington has over the Mossberg.
Mossberg 590 Summation
Strengths
1. Better control manipulation
2. Open loading gate
3. Easily swapped ejector
4. Easier to find full length mag tube without extensions
Weaknesses
1. Action not as smooth as Remington 870 (Though not by a large margin)
2. Aluminum receiver
3. Aftermarket parts slightly harder to come by
4. No choke options
2.Magpul SGA Stock
As a precision shooter nothing is more important than fitting your rifle to yourself. When I got into the shotgun works I immediately sought something that could do this. I first looked into collapsible AR-15 style stocks. I found this to really not work for me. Awkward angles. Bad cheek weld. Made my hand feel very bad under recoil. The pistol grip made control manipulation difficult. All around it was not for me, nor do I recommend it to people. The only stock I could find that really appealed to me needs was the SGA stock from Magpul.
I'll be openly biased and say I love this stock. LOP and cheek comb adjustment. The grip angle is perfect for me coming from service rifles and prone style precision stocks. It allows full manipulation of the shotgun controls. The stock is stutdy, fits together perfectly and locks up well. It is rugged and easy to adjust. It has great grip as well. Personally I find it looks very sharp, but of course that is subjective. This is, I believe, the best stock on the market for Mossberg and Remington shotguns.
It is not without fault. I feel for the price you should get a little more. You have to buy a QD mount separate. You have to buy cheek risers separate in a pack of 2. For the price it would be nice if these were incorporated, at least the QD mount. The QD mount is also not the limited rotation style, which is really annoying. A QD on a sling will rotate and tangle when doing drills rapidly. This would have been a cheap fix, but they have not released anything of this nature to date.
Another annoyance is the Mossberg SGA, not the Remington one, makes it very difficult to remove the trigger group. Some people say it is impossible, but I pulled very hard and the trigger group came out so it is possible I just don't recommend it. Some guys dremel the SGA a bit, but this will leave a slight gap. I just back the screw out a quarter turn and the assembly comes out. This does require tools and makes takedown more annoying. I really wish Magpul made slight alterations to alloe for field disassembly. With a side saddle this becomes a mute point as that requires tools to remove the trigger group anyways.
Magpul SGA Summation
Strengths
1. Good grip angle
2. Adjustable LOP and cheek comb
3. Solid grip texture
4. High build quality
Weaknesses
1. Have to buy cheek comb and QD mount
2. Complicates disassembly
3. Expensive
3. Magpul MOE M-Lok Forend
The Magpul forend is inexpensive and easy to drop in. It is well built and matches the SGA stock so cosmetically it makes sense to run both. This forend is much taller than the factory one. When the barrel heats up this is a very nice feature as I found sometimes I could catch my thumb on a hot barrel. I can't speak to the mounting of accessories because I have used this feature. The front and rear stop are nice.
The forend is lacking in grip, especially when running the gun hard. It offers nothing over the factory forend in this area. Another thing to be aware of is that due to the taller design it will rub your barrel and create wear marks. I remember when I first noticed this I was very upset because my new gun had these wear marks all over it. Now I have run this gun so hard there are little "battle" marks everywhere and I don't care. If you have a safe queen shotgun please be aware of this though.
Magpul Forend Summation
Strengths
1. Tall sides protect hands
2. Front and rear stop
3. Mounts accessories
4. Matches SGA
Weaknesses
1. No grip improvement
2. Rubs barrel creating wear marks
4. Magpul Forward Sling Mount
I will come out and say I have a hate for this piece of equipment, but let's start with the good. This mount allows for a para clip or QD sling mount. It is a QD limited which is nice. It is very solid and does not move. I have run drills with it, hunted and hiked. It doesn't move. If you are running a side mount QD on the SGA this is probably your only option for a 2 point sling.
This mount uses a 1/64 screw. Why Magpul.. why not use a standard one. If you only run the QD mount you have to run the screw through about which you have to hold on the other side. This is a total pain. Even if you are running a QD sling I would recommend throwing the pars clip on the other side to make it easier to take down. This needs to be removed to disassemble the gun, another step.
This thing will scratch a blued finish. Scratch the #### out of it. The pads they supply are not sufficient. I went to Home Depot and bought some high temperature gasket wrap. I cut my own pieces to fully cover all sides of the mount. This prevents scratching, but they need to be recut and replaced a couple times a year which I do.
Magpul suggests 17 inch pounds of torque. I would not recommend this as when I did that it jammed my follower. Using the short side of a hex key tighten firmly and stop. Do not use the long side you don't need it.
Summation Sling Mount
Strengths
1. Solid mount
2. Paraclip or QD options
Weaknesses
1. Scratches barrel and Mag tube
2. Double QD is a pain to set up
3. Non-standard screw if using torque bit (not recommended)
4. Another step for disassembly.
5. Magpul MS3 Sling
I have the gen 1 Sling with the quick adjust strap. For the price I believe this is a decent sling, but I would say the VTAC is better. Construction is good. The 2 point to one point setup is easy. I bought it because it was on sale and worked with the mounting setup I wanted.
I wish the QD connector portion was longer so the sling could be tighter to the body but give enough offset to the gun. This is probably preference, but if that section was triple the length it would make for a more maneuverable sling. The loop portion would stay tight on the body which helps with different drills. I've used this sling in 2 point configuration for hiking and it work well enough.
Summation MS3 Sling
Strengths
1. 1 point and 2 point
2. Easy to use and adjust
3. High quality of materials
Weaknesses
2. QD portion is too short. When doing drills while sling moves and slides around. If this was longer the loop portion would stay tight on the body during drills and this would increase maneuverability.
6. Tacstar Slimline Sidesaddle
Have you ever been pleasantly surprised by a piece of gear? I found hardly anything online about this side saddle. I hate with a burning passion the original Tacstar Side Saddle. I've used Mesa and detachable Velcro saddles, now this is on my gun. It is very slim, easy to mount. It used rubber to hold the shells which I have never seen. The rubber bends easily, doesn't scratch, is impervious to the elements, and is solid.
When I first got this the shells were tight. So tight I couldn't get them out. I stored snap caps in them for a couple days, they loosened right up to the perfect amount. Brass up or down shells don't move. I have run 25 rounds of buckshot through my gun and they don't budge. Since it is rubber it doesn't bang around on all your kit and is very easy to work with. The best part is I bought this saddle for $40, half the price of a Mesa.
The shells are not as easy to remove as Velcro carriers, but the Velcro carriers I have used do not properly hold rounds under repeated use of slugs or buck. For me I prefer having my rounds rock solid and slightly harder to grab than the opposite, that's a preference.
Also note that this saddle uses a Chicago screw just like the Mesa. This protects the aluminum receiver and prevents it from being pinched. Tacstar learned a lot from their first saddle and in my opinion knocked this out if the park. I put a small dab of loctite 242 on the threads. 250 rounds in a day and no loosening.
Summation Tacstar Saddle
Strengths
1. Good mounting system (Chicago screw)
2. Solid shell retention
3. Rubber is unique, weather resistant, easy to work with and manipulate
4. Slim design, lightweight
5. High build quality
6. Solid Price
7. Comes with free snap cap
Weaknesses
1. Shell holders initially tight, will always be tighter than Velcro models
2. Replaces gun hardware unlike Velcro designs
3. No quick change like Velcro designs
Bonus: Score Ammunition
I started firing Score ammunition through my gun based on the price. In my area it is the cheapest shotgun ammunition I can find. It also helped that out of the major brands Score patterned second best in my gun. I use 7 1/2 shot for clays or just general drills. Between myself and shooting buddies we have fired over 1000 rounds of Score in the past two years. The slugs are the cheapest on the market, but very accurate. I use them extensively for practice with slugs. They utilize a foster style slug, which is not my preferred for bear defence, but perfect for practice. Also they are a Canadian company and I firmly believe in supporting home grown when possible.
This year I did have 2 misfires on the bird shot. The shells were tested in another shotgun and failed to fire as well so I believe it to be a primer issue. Could have been an off lot I am not really sure, for the price though 2 misfires in 1000 rounds is not terrible. I have never had a misfire on slugs or buckshot.
Summation Score
Strengths
1. Very cheap
2. Patterns well (in my gun, test your own)
3. Accurate slugs
4. Good variety of shot options
5. Canadian made
Weaknesses
1. Not flawless consistency (2 in 1000 misfire)
2. Foster style slugs are not the best for bear defence
Thank you for reading!
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