Pics of the inside of your ATRS AT,MV,MH lower reciever?

The only reason this isn't an AR15 variant is the stepped receiver and how the two halves mount together.

Everything else is just random changes. Think ACR differences vs an AR15 and that's all it takes.

If all it would have took was the stepped receiver that's all they would have done. There would be absolutely no point for them to make so many different parts. It costs them money to make all the little non-specific parts too. Why would they if they thought they didn't have to? It would be in their best interest to source as many common parts as possible for both costs and efficiency and would help keep overall costs lower and help sell more rifles. They would have if they could have.
As far as the ACR goes, it's a totally different platform. Don't even try and compare it to an ar-15 even though you wish it was.
 
If all it would have took was the stepped receiver that's all they would have done. There would be absolutely no point for them to make so many different parts. It costs them money to make all the little non-specific parts too. Why would they if they thought they didn't have to? It would be in their best interest to source as many common parts as possible for both costs and efficiency and would help keep overall costs lower and help sell more rifles. They would have if they could have.
As far as the ACR goes, it's a totally different platform. Don't even try and compare it to an ar-15 even though you wish it was.

Making so many parts is hedging their bets against the lab. At the end of the day though the receivers are the key to what the gun is. As long as those two halves aren't compatible to the AR15 design you've got a new gun design. The profile and the mounting design are the win.

I've got both guns. I know exactly what they are and why. I don't wish anything.
 
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The ACR is pretty different, though. From the bolt carrier to just how the two receivers fit together.

Yup. And you could build an AR15 upper with a similar design to the ACR carrier and you'd still have an ar15 upper on a lower. You could add all the other feature the ACR has to an ar15 upper and lower and you'd still have an AR15.

It's all about the receivers. Everything else is just stuff.
 
I'd like to point out that Rick has two ruined lower receivers sitting in the junk bin. Those receivers were destroyed by owners who tried to remove the trigger pack and didn't know what they were doing. To me this is 100% user error and should not be cover under warranty even though Rick replaced them both free of charge.
If you are not very familiar with these single pin trigger packs and how to remove them properly I suggest you leave them alone and have ATRS swap in your dream trigger if it's possible to install it. I doubt there will be many more free repairs for the owners who ruin theirs. Crashing your car into a tree is not a warranty issue just like ruining something taking it apart is not a warranty issue.
 
I'd like to point out that Rick has two ruined lower receivers sitting in the junk bin. Those receivers were destroyed by owners who tried to remove the trigger pack and didn't know what they were doing. To me this is 100% user error and should not be cover under warranty even though Rick replaced them both free of charge.
If you are not very familiar with these single pin trigger packs and how to remove them properly I suggest you leave them alone and have ATRS swap in your dream trigger if it's possible to install it. I doubt there will be many more free repairs for the owners who ruin theirs. Crashing your car into a tree is not a warranty issue just like ruining something taking it apart is not a warranty issue.

Does that have to do the fact that the rear trunnion pin must be removed for the triggers to come out? I am starting to understand why they say it's non-user removable.
 
Thanks for sharing your pics jiffx2781, definitely some nice machining and finish !

The same attention to detail that you see on the outside is still present on the inside. No nasty surprises hidden. By far the finest I've seen (in this type of firearm). I knew it was going to be nice but I had no idea it would be as nice as it is. People seem to think that the cost is due to an over inflated non-restricted tax of some kind but what you are actually paying for is craftsmanship, which now a days is all too often lost.
 
I'd like to point out that Rick has two ruined lower receivers sitting in the junk bin. Those receivers were destroyed by owners who tried to remove the trigger pack and didn't know what they were doing. To me this is 100% user error and should not be cover under warranty even though Rick replaced them both free of charge.
If you are not very familiar with these single pin trigger packs and how to remove them properly I suggest you leave them alone and have ATRS swap in your dream trigger if it's possible to install it. I doubt there will be many more free repairs for the owners who ruin theirs. Crashing your car into a tree is not a warranty issue just like ruining something taking it apart is not a warranty issue.

This is exactly why I went through the effort to explain that this is not your simple basic ar-15 that anyone can just play mix and match with. There is some compatibility but not everything.
As far as the trigger pack goes, it's not rocket science but it is probably the biggest and most complex difference between the two platforms. I'm not going to be the guy to tell someone who I have no idea if he is capable or not how to do it. There REALLY is no reason for anyone to mess with it. Most ar-15 trigger options will not work with this. It will only fit the different Timney AR trigger packs. It is the ONE thing ATRS suggests not to DIY so instead of voiding your warranty and causing a lot of grief just leave it alone or send it back to them if you would like a different Timney trigger installed.
 
Does that have to do the fact that the rear trunnion pin must be removed for the triggers to come out? I am starting to understand why they say it's non-user removable.

I didn't ask for details, I have no interest in changing my trigger so I don't need to know how to remove it.
All I know is that if you do it yourself and wreck something it could void the warranty.
 
I didn't ask for details, I have no interest in changing my trigger so I don't need to know how to remove it.
All I know is that if you do it yourself and wreck something it could void the warranty.

I think tinkering with a lot of things would void warranty, but people still do it. Remember iphone jailbreaking?

I think a large number of us who don't have one in hand wants to figure out this mystery of ruining lowers by simply removing triggers.

My guess is that there's two screw holes originally for set screws at the bottom of the Timney trigger pack, and Rick has used those for trigger pack attachment purposes? I'd really want to take a peek at how everything comes together. I don't think it would be hard to take it apart. (They also say that the barrel isn't compatible because the indexing is at the bottom. Heck, can't we just solve that by making a tiny notch at 12o clock?) I think there's lots of exaggeration surrounding this trigger mystery. I don't believe it to be that complicated, at least not to those who are proficient with hand tools.

I wish someone can post pics from a different angle, with hammer released and out of the way.
 
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They also say that the barrel isn't compatible because the indexing is at the bottom. Heck, can't we just solve that by making a tiny notch at 12o clock?

You're catching on quickly. Or instead of making alterations to the upper receiver, simply relocate the pin in the barrel extension 180°. Like I said, not impossible just different. Just make sure you have the proper tooling and know how to do the job right or it will be an extremely expensive mistake through no fault but your own.
It's only the lower receiver that is the regulated part and MUST NOT BE ALTERED. When it comes to the rest of the rifle the sky's the limit. Just don't expect ATRS to warranty anything if they see alterations like this, should anything ever go wrong.
One more thing to consider is that your "off the shelf" options for ar-15 barrels that you can use in this rifle are extremely limited. The shortest standard barrel you will be able to buy and use on this will be a 20" length.
 
I think tinkering with a lot of things would void warranty, but people still do it. Remember iphone jailbreaking?

I think a large number of us who don't have one in hand wants to figure out this mystery of ruining lowers by simply removing triggers.

My guess is that there's two screw holes originally for set screws at the bottom of the Timney trigger pack, and Rick has used those for trigger pack attachment purposes? I'd really want to take a peek at how everything comes together. I don't think it would be hard to take it apart. (They also say that the barrel isn't compatible because the indexing is at the bottom. Heck, can't we just solve that by making a tiny notch at 12o clock?) I think there's lots of exaggeration surrounding this trigger mystery. I don't believe it to be that complicated, at least not to those who are proficient with hand tools.

I wish someone can post pics from a different angle, with hammer released and out of the way.

I haven't tried to take anything apart on my MH other than splitting the upper/lower for cleaning and inspection but going by what others have said the Hunter uses a standard AR-10 barrel with no modifications but the Varmint has the index pin at 6 o'clock instead of 12 o'clock.
As for the trigger, as I've said it's a single pin Timney but I would have to take a much closer look to give any details. You're correct though, someone familiar with firearms and mechanically inclined should have no problems removing it without damage but in my opinion it's more than good enough so there really isn't much need to remove it. Tinkering just for the sake of tinkering is asking for trouble. Don't try to fix what isn't broken.
If you PM me your phone number or email I'll send you a pic of the internals of my MH, just specify exactly what it is you're trying to see or figure out.
 
I haven't tried to take anything apart on my MH other than splitting the upper/lower for cleaning and inspection.........
Well then that doesn't make you the best guy to be giving others advice on how to do's for this rifle.

As for the trigger, as I've said it's a single pin Timney
No such thing as a single pin trigger pack. Here are your options: https://www.timneytriggers.com/shop/ar-replacement-triggers.aspx

The trigger used in the MV/MH is just a standard TWO pin Timney AR trigger pack. The guy by the username of BeerBarron has the Targa 2 Stage installed in his MV. I also inquired about the new Calvin Elite and was told that it is going to become one of the options. The difference is that the ATRS receiver only utilizes the front pin and is designed in such a way that it will only fit and position the Timney trigger packs. After having and figuring mine out I can easily see how someone who is not mechanically inclined could make a mess of things.
 
It's only the lower receiver that is the regulated part and MUST NOT BE ALTERED. When it comes to the rest of the rifle the sky's the limit. Just don't expect ATRS to warranty anything if they see alterations like this, should anything ever go wrong.
One more thing to consider is that your "off the shelf" options for ar-15 barrels that you can use in this rifle are extremely limited. The shortest standard barrel you will be able to buy and use on this will be a 20" length.

The reason we spun the barrel extension locating pin 180 degrees was to expressly prevent guys from using a short AR15 barrel thus allowing the SFSS/RCMP an opportunity to open the door to re-examination and re-classification of the MV rifles. The law states they only had 1 year to change their mind from when they rendered a legal classification. For someone "tinkering" to install a shorter than 18.6" barrel would open the door to potential reclassification and screw over hundreds of MV owners. We have seen this very scenario with the several other NR rifles that went from NR to Prohib overnight. We have tried everything possible to protect owners of our rifles from this sort of thing, but it seems several guys want to risk screwing things up by their tinkering.
We had a conversation with a client just yesterday regarding his deep desire to change the trigger. The FRT CLEARLY states that these guns are outfitted with a "Timney" trigger. By common logic changing the trigger to something else "shouldn't " open the door to re-examination, but then again we are talking about the SFSS/RCMP who clearly can't be counted on to employ logic or play fair when it comes to guns.
 
Rick, I hope you don't think I'm trying to stir anything up. I clearly understand why this rifle was built the way it is and I want to continue to enjoy it freely for a VERY long time. Your reasoning is exactly why I'm trying to tell guys NOT to make any form of alterations directly to the lower receiver and that ONLY the Timney trigger packs are compatible. Also the reason I'm trying to make people aware of the barrel length issue. People are going to want to "tinker" and find a way to change things. It's in us to do it. The first thing I do with something new is strip it down and figure it out. However, I understand the things that should not be altered, but unfortunately some do not. Hopefully by pointing people in the direction of the Timney trigger options they will realize that if they do not like the one that comes installed there is options for them.
Instead of simply telling people that the trigger can't be changed perhaps it may be a good thing for you to put a little effort into making people aware that they do indeed have a few options. Actually some of the best options out there.
I'm not suggesting you make every available Timney trigger pack an option on your build sheet as the more options the more complicated things become for you. But perhaps you could find a way to let current MV/MH owners know that you would be willing to sell them one of the other compatible options and install it for them for a minimal charge? This could help you to prevent people from screwing things up with their desire to try and "fix" something that ultimately isn't broken.
 
The reason we spun the barrel extension locating pin 180 degrees was to expressly prevent guys from using a short AR15 barrel thus allowing the SFSS/RCMP an opportunity to open the door to re-examination and re-classification of the MV rifles. The law states they only had 1 year to change their mind from when they rendered a legal classification. For someone "tinkering" to install a shorter than 18.6" barrel would open the door to potential reclassification and screw over hundreds of MV owners. We have seen this very scenario with the several other NR rifles that went from NR to Prohib overnight. We have tried everything possible to protect owners of our rifles from this sort of thing, but it seems several guys want to risk screwing things up by their tinkering.
We had a conversation with a client just yesterday regarding his deep desire to change the trigger. The FRT CLEARLY states that these guns are outfitted with a "Timney" trigger. By common logic changing the trigger to something else "shouldn't " open the door to re-examination, but then again we are talking about the SFSS/RCMP who clearly can't be counted on to employ logic or play fair when it comes to guns.

Rick, would it be possible you could ask the lab for clarification before anyone goes down such a road as making an upgrade to the trigger (specifically without any alteration to reciever dimensions). It seems to me you were looking at sourcing Trigger Tech triggers at one point, so surely the manufacturers name being specifically noted in the FRT cant be that big of a deal other than it being a way of noting the single pin drop in trigger design was the only factory option offered.

If parts are made to fit the gun, and not the other way around.... then it's no different than the barrel issue where folks must adapt barrels to fit rather than notching their recievers to accept standard barrels.

Let me ask you this: is the 6 o'clock indexing pin mentioned in the FRT? If so, how is it a different issue from the trigger? Both are mentioned, we are allowed to alter barrels to fit legally, but not allowed to alter triggers to fit legally?

Both would have zero dimensional changes to the reciever, and are both specifically noted in the FRT as design characteristics if I am not mistaken, and both are based off of basic AR part that (like the BCG) have been specially modified or incorporated into the Modern series design.

I really (as you know) have a hard time believing this (making a new trigger single pin drop in housing that reqiures no reciever alterations, but would require alterations to the width of the implant trigger//<--definite liability issues there from a manufacturer perspective, and certainly would void warranty on the implant trigger) is any different than altering a non-manufacturer offered barrel or BCG to fit.

Muzzleing the aftermarket manufactures from innovation is a real shame. The Modern series is a really unique platform with strong potential, but I feel the aftermarket could improve it more starting with 2 pin to single pin trigger housings, and possibly even a lower pofile charging handle. (Although the new spring assisted Charging handle appears to be a great design improvement, just wish it stuck out less)

/rant :p
 
Well then that doesn't make you the best guy to be giving others advice on how to do's for this rifle.

I'm not giving advice to others on how to do anything, I'm telling people to leave good enough alone unless they want to risk damage to their $3500+ rifle and loss of warranty coverage. I stated that there are two lower receivers that I know about (there may be more now) that have been ruined by the owner who was tinkering and didn't know what they were doing so that people would understand that removing the trigger pack is more involved than an AR, you don't just push out the pin and pull it out. Some people, yourself included may already know and understand this but that advice was for the guys who are less mechanically inclined or less familiar with the setup who feel there is no harm in tinkering just for the sake of tinkering.

The post asked for pictures of the internals not advice on how to remove the trigger so I also offered to email or text pictures since my laptop is kaput and I can't upload pics to the forum from my phone (or I haven't figured out how to at least).
 
Rick, I hope you don't think I'm trying to stir anything up. I clearly understand why this rifle was built the way it is and I want to continue to enjoy it freely for a VERY long time. Your reasoning is exactly why I'm trying to tell guys NOT to make any form of alterations directly to the lower receiver and that ONLY the Timney trigger packs are compatible. Also the reason I'm trying to make people aware of the barrel length issue. People are going to want to "tinker" and find a way to change things. It's in us to do it. The first thing I do with something new is strip it down and figure it out. However, I understand the things that should not be altered, but unfortunately some do not. Hopefully by pointing people in the direction of the Timney trigger options they will realize that if they do not like the one that comes installed there is options for them.
Instead of simply telling people that the trigger can't be changed perhaps it may be a good thing for you to put a little effort into making people aware that they do indeed have a few options. Actually some of the best options out there.
I'm not suggesting you make every available Timney trigger pack an option on your build sheet as the more options the more complicated things become for you. But perhaps you could find a way to let current MV/MH owners know that you would be willing to sell them one of the other compatible options and install it for them for a minimal charge? This could help you to prevent people from screwing things up with their desire to try and "fix" something that ultimately isn't broken.

We are on the same page, your posts have been helpful. We have only had a very few guys that for some reason or another do not like the
Only recently has Timney made more offerings, so we now have more trigger offerings . Beerbaron was the 1st test pilot for the Timney 2 stage in a MV and so far his feedback has been all positive. The new Calvin Elite trigger is what another of our pro shooters is running and so far (400 plus rounds) not a hiccup, so we will be offering both options moving forward.
For anyone wanting to change the trigger to one of the newer offering from Timney please contact us and we will work something out.
 
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