Status of collector's market, present and future: share your opinion.

I know of a few younger and newer shooters (not that old and experienced myself) who are surprisingly interested in milsurps. Out of respect for history and/or grandparents/ancestors a nice collectible and original item is certainly desirable - not everyone wants something to shoot thousands of rounds through. Prices today, and the inevitable scammers and counterfeiters that come with, are a bit of a deterrent to those looking to get started, but that acts as insurance against a drop in prices too as the hold outs will jump in.

But don't think it's going away, the internet has helped in a huge way to get information available and foster appreciation.
As we all know the more SKS's get modified the more the original unmolested ones increase in value.

Also helping things is that more modern battle guns either won't be sold to the public or can't, and the number of people getting PALs is still going up.
 
Prices inevitably always go up, the price increase has been nuts the last couple years. Unfortunately that keeps a lot of people from entering the collector market especially the younger folks who don't have lots of disposable income for that new Enfield or mauser.
There will always be a collectors market but for it to remain strong I think the prices need to stabilize and go down some to make it more attractive for new people to start collecting. All the hoarders out there actually hurt the collector market because they want the prices to skyrocket and what they charge for stuff drives the prices up across the board. Unfortunately there is always someone out there who will pay the high costs which then keeps the prices up. The hoarders don't care about the state of the collectors market as long as they make their double and triple profits and their pockets are full. It will eventually get to a point where the costs are so high that no one will be able to afford to buy them and either the market will crash or the prices may have to get back to a reasonable state in order for people to resume collecting.

It just may get to where milsurp collecting will be strictly a hobby for the rich and wealthy. Hopefully that never happens.
 
Light Infantry said:
This has been talked about in various formats and questions but would like to bring it up.

Where do you think the market for milsurps is heading over the next few years? Will it diminish, increase, stagnate?

Currently the market is very robust and we are seeing prices being paid for milsurps that were unthought of just a few years ago.

I am not talking about particular milsurps but the overall market. I am also referring to Canada as a market as well as The USA/World as a market, and not particular area of a country.

I am not factoring govt legislation into this market, so lets keep that out of the discussion. If the hammer comes down, we all know what that will do. I am only interested in view points on where people's interests's lie and the overall demand based on that interest.

The reason I ask is that we have seen various collectable markets plummet over the last decade, most likely due to shifting demographics i.e boomers getting older and downsizing. For example, antique/wood furniture is a fraction of the value now (I personally think it will go back up astronomically in 20-30 years). Same goes for Doulton and Hummel figurines, china sets, depression glass, wool hand made oriental rugs, baseball cards, beanie babies etc.

The milsurp market has been spurred on by a few notable reasons: movies and shows like Saving Private Ryan and the Band of Brothers and veterans as a whole nearing the end of their lives.

Please keep the responses focused on the above. Do not disrupt this post or go on a rant. Keep it civil. i want a serious and insightful discussion. If you have nothing positive and meaningful to contribute, please F**K off. I have read the other post about people not wanting to post because of #### heads coming along and causing mayhem. YOU will be reported to the mods.
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trebor2880 said:
New gun laws could affect prices in a negative way. As anyone selling prohibs, well knows.
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Light Infantry said:
That didn't take long.

READ. THE. ORIGINAL. POST.
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LI,
Very interesting thread, thanks for starting.
YES, I did read and understand the bolded part.
However, I dont think trebor is out of line here.
Gun laws are a real thing, and it would be foolish to not factor it in.
Even if we dont have a blanket semi-auto ban, just the possibility hanging over us WILL affect prices.

My best guess (and its only that...) is that MilSurp prices will stay solid and continue to rise, but not nearly as rapidly as in the past decade.

Besides worry or apprehension of future bans, other factors likely will be:
-Tighter PAL rules greatly reducing the number of new shooters. (Yeah ,I know this touches on legal issues, but again, it is a valid concern)
-Ammo availability
-Older guys dying and collections coming on the market.
-Prices getting TOO high and driving future collectors away. (I have lost interest in rock concerts now. They can pound their $200 tickets up their arse. I'm out.)
-Speculators buying just to flip. That has completely f'ed up a lot of collectables. This ties in directly to the point above. (Excessive cost)
(I never followed the sports card market, but I recall a conversation with someone that said the market crashed almost instantly.
It seems that everyone said "F___ it!" all at once.)
 
The younger collector who is looking at the milsurp prices must think twice about price.
There are very few new guns coming into the market. When I started collecting guns, I just picked out a few of the guns that were out there. The Gun Runner, Access To Firearms, International firearms newspapers and sales flyers arrival was like Christmas.
Loads of guns in the pages and cheap prices. But they were the reserve stocks sold off after many countries went to automatic battle rifles like the FN FAL, and the AK-47. Israel sold the Mausers rebarreled to 7.62 off because they were going to the Galil and the FN went into reserve.
My point is the military firearms out there are the final ones collectors are going to get.
Any of the guns like the FN FAL, FN L1A1, M14, AK-47s, AKMs, Galils, AR-180s, H&Ks, Thompsons, Brens, Stens, Sterlings, BM59s, are guns owned by the Boomers who are (lucky or unlucky) to own them.
Not worth much to the few owners in the 12-X classes.
I have over the years had a few thousand milsurps go through my hands they were cheap.
If the younger generation is going to collect they would be wise to just want one good example of milsurps. Example would WWI & II Mauser, Enfield, Springfield, Mosin and other examples there is no such thing as collecting all of one type there isn't enough cash on hand for that game.
Prices are going to rise on some of the common guns because the $1000 & $2000 guns are out of reach.
I have been selling my collection off for the past for years and it is hard to let something go that I have searched for years. A heart attack and my other half had cancer twice so the guns don't mean as much.
Just my two nickels because pennies are gone. Who Knew
 
I think, that SVT-40 and Enfields hit the ceiling.To have more value in the future, they will have to have a story about them. The buyer will want to know, where the rifle came from (not from what dealer),what country it was involved in the war etc. SKS prices will go up to $600, because right now they are still a bargain.
 
The fact of life is every year there are more people on this world collecting rifles and a ever dwindling supply of them. 50 years ago a $24.95 Lee Enfield was 1/2 a weeks wages and there were millions of them, nowadays a $600.00 Lee Enfield is 1/2 a weeks wage or even less.
People may think that prices are crazy but really they are not. Prices have risen more on a loaf of bread or a quart of milk compared to the price of a surplus rifle.
 
mr.e moose said:
The fact of life is every year there are more people on this world collecting rifles and a ever dwindling supply of them. 50 years ago a $24.95 Lee Enfield was 1/2 a weeks wages and there were millions of them, nowadays a $600.00 Lee Enfield is 1/2 a weeks wage or even less.
People may think that prices are crazy but really they are not. Prices have risen more on a loaf of bread or a quart of milk compared to the price of a surplus rifle.
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So true. Everybody forgets that they were making a buck or two an hour back then. The big difference.....there were lot more goodies to be had back then. Oh those were the good ol days!!!
 
bros said:
So true. Everybody forgets that they were making a buck or two an hour back then. The big difference.....there were lot more goodies to be had back then. Oh those were the good ol days!!!
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From the end of WW2 to maybe 70s/80s, the prices didnt move a lot. (I don't go back that far, so if any of our senior members want to correct me...)
But they sure jumped a lot in the last 10 or 20 years.
I bought a Danish Garand for $150 from Lever in 1996.
My wages certainly have not jumped tenfold in that time!
 
mr.e moose said:
The fact of life is every year there are more people on this world collecting rifles and a ever dwindling supply of them. 50 years ago a $24.95 Lee Enfield was 1/2 a weeks wages and there were millions of them, nowadays a $600.00 Lee Enfield is 1/2 a weeks wage or even less.
People may think that prices are crazy but really they are not. Prices have risen more on a loaf of bread or a quart of milk compared to the price of a surplus rifle.
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Your numbers are a bit out of touch. Average income for a Canadian is about 50k a year. That averages down to about 1000$ a week before taxes. After taxes, your looking at a weeks wage, maybe a week and a halfs wage. This is only the average. For many people it is actually less than that as that average factors in the exceptionally rich. To top it off you still have the higher cost of living as well meaning more money gone to just live. For many collectors/people getting into the hobby, a 600$ rifle is a minimum two month investment plan unless they are putting a significant amount of money into the hobby. Just something to consider.

The Profiteers also have negative effect on the hobby, for example many of the people who bought the M91/30/43s from Tradeex had them up for sale within two weeks at a attempt for significant profit. Just disgusting if you ask me, if you don't want it, don't buy it.
 
Very interesting read. I just got into milsurps this year and I'm 34. I have around 15 of them now and the reason I bought a lot in a short period of time is because I beleive the prices will continue to rise and if I want them in my collection I better buy them now while I can afford them.
Someone told me that "you can't pay too much, you just might have bought too early" (obviously to an extent)

Most of my guns I'd like to keep in my collection and maybe sell a few of my multiples a few years from now and hopefully make a few bucks on them. Right now I've paid top dollar for my SVT's and K31's. I love the guns and will keep one of each for a long time but I'm hoping I can sell the others as the price rises (if it does) How long will I have to keep them in order to make a profit? Who knows.


A few people have said that the younger people just aren't collecting milsurps and the hobby will die off. They also said that the higher quality guns will continue to be worth more. There will be a small niche market that will pay a lot of money for a quality gun if very little people are collecting them, making it hard to sell that gun (maybe, this is just a theory I'm throwing out there)
For a younger person they might be more interested in just buying a shooter grade gun to have in their safe rather than spending a lot more for a collectable. 1) they won't have the interest in a collectable and 2) they won't be able to afford it.
In that case, the lower end priced guns might sell easier than the higher ones. The younger crowd might be more willing to pay $350 for a refurb SKS rather than $600 for a nicer blued Izzy (speculated future prices)
Just a thought....
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Your numbers are a bit out of touch. Average income for a Canadian is about 50k a year. That averages down to about 1000$ a week before taxes. After taxes, your looking at a weeks wage, maybe a week and a halfs wage. This is only the average. For many people it is actually less than that as that average factors in the exceptionally rich. To top it off you still have the higher cost of living as well meaning more money gone to just live. For many collectors/people getting into the hobby, a 600$ rifle is a minimum two month investment plan unless they are putting a significant amount of money into the hobby. Just something to consider.

The Profiteers also have negative effect on the hobby, for example many of the people who bought the M91/30/43s from Tradeex had them up for sale within two weeks at a attempt for significant profit. Just disgusting if you ask me, if you don't want it, don't buy it.
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The hypocrisy in your last line is stunning... but in a way you did nail it. ;)
 
I don't know how's it going for everyone else....but I've bought 7 LE in the last 12 month, had never collected LE before. I would hope that, like everything else..in life they will get passed on..to show,shot and admire.
 
The Profiteers also have negative effect on the hobby, for example many of the people who bought the M91/30/43s from Tradeex had them up for sale within two weeks at a attempt for significant profit. Just disgusting if you ask me, if you don't want it, don't buy it.
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It doesn't seem like they are selling on the EE.
 
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Good topic for discussion. Some very considered responses in this thread with interesting insights.

My concise thought is that the milsurp collector's market has plateaued out as prices have started going beyond the grasp of the well to do enthusiast - young or old, this is the demographic that drives pricing on any collectible. There will always be a market for unique/ rare/ pristine samples, but one has to balance this with the reality of a much smaller and specialized pool of potential buyers which is only going to get smaller as time goes on and a newer generation fed on video games and wonder guns starts enforcing their tastes on the hobby. The "price no bar" market is so small as to be insignificant already, and hence, in the near future, pristine milsurps, while being more expensive price wise, will be worth their "price" only for the "right" buyer. The large majority of the populace, will be content with a few cheap milsurp shooters and the odd decent sample(s) to satisfy their need for nostalgia and cost effective grin per dollar.

So, it is my opinion that, given the current market, buying now from an investment point of view is just pointless. Instead, I buy what I like and makes me happy and in the best condition possible with the full understanding that I will, in almost all instances, not recoup my money if I were to ever sell it in the foreseeable future. instead, I focus on enjoying them for what they are - pieces of history that are way more fun than textbooks.
 
I have two Enfield sportsters. One is 1916 SMLE made in England. It's got walnut Montecarlo stock and 3x9x40 scope. It has a lot of proof marks, the barrel was replaced in 1928. Barrel is 5 grooves in very good condition and is excellent shooter. I bought it last year for $200. The other is 1944 No4 MK1, bought last year for $175. I'm happy with these sportsters, I frankly don't like the full wood Enfields.They remind me the wooden toys gun I played with as a child growing in Easter Europe.
 
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