Pepperbox & now pics of the other ML pistols

[Londonshooter]

Well, this was interesting.
At auction I bought this pistol. As far as I can see is all original with German silver frame (i.e. a solid nickel alloy that is silver in colour and does not contain silver). Like silver it is not magnetic but unlike silver does not tarnish. No maker marks but Birmingham proofs on each barrel. Double action works flawlessly - yes had a piece of plastic in the way to prevent the hammer from smashing on the nipples.
Here it is:

1st thing a person is told to do is ensure there are no loads in a new-to-you ML and sure enough there were two barrels that the brass rod stopped almost an inch short. Guess what?

More pics:

I intend to sell this as well as another British (Manton) percussion pistol and a cased pair of tap guns.
So, a couple questions for the experts. There is one broken nipple. I could have gunsmith extract it and replace with a correct-sized replacement but would a collector prefer to not have it messed with? Next, what would be value in Canadian market? There is a very similar gun - nearly exact - on ancestryguns.com so I have a good idea of what starting price in US would be.
Any input appreciated.
John

 

[tiriaq]

I'd leave the broken nipple alone. Generally these pistols use nipples that aren't going to be found at the usual suppliers; might have to be made.

 

[Londonshooter]

Thanks, Tiriaq. My go-to guy could make one but am thinking the cost would be approx $150 for the fabrication and $50 for the extraction. My thought is that the next owner might prefer all-original that if they wanted to could shoot 5 barrels, rather than a 6-shooter that has one new part.

 

[tiriaq]

I've made nipples when necessary, including cutting the threads on my 13x40 lathe. Fiddly little jobs.

 

[cooter303]

I have an allen and thurber pepperbox and the nipples are not removable on it. they look machined out of the rear of the barrels.

 

[Londonshooter]

I have an allen and thurber pepperbox and the nipples are not removable on it. they look machined out of the rear of the barrels.

Interesting. This one I can see the nipples are threaded in. Some types have a square or rectangular base that a tool fits over for removal but for these there is a horizontal slot on each side of the nipple shoulder for a tool that I expect looked like a screwdriver with a large gap in the middle. After 150 years I imagine it would take heating/quenching to get out or more likely drill and re-tap.

 

[mooncoon]

Interesting. This one I can see the nipples are threaded in. Some types have a square or rectangular base that a tool fits over for removal but for these there is a horizontal slot on each side of the nipple shoulder for a tool that I expect looked like a screwdriver with a large gap in the middle. After 150 years I imagine it would take heating/quenching to get out or more likely drill and re-tap.

Quite a few nipples are a royal pain to get out and in some cases I have had to drill them and use a tiny easy - out. Almost always they require heat as well. Once out, at least half of the ones that I have worked on, required chasing out the threads with home made taps and going up in jumps of about 5 thousands. On a few nipples I have used a short piece of shafting drilled and tapped to accept the thread of the nipple to be. Cut the thread on the nipple first then cut the material to length and screw it into the threaded shaft to give the lathe something to hold while you turn the cap end of the nipple and drill the center hole. (I drill the small hole first before while I have the material chucked for threading

cheers mooncoon

 

[tacfoley]

Leave the gun as it is for the next owner to make up his or her mind about replacing the nipple. Any costs that YOU incur trying to rectify the problem would be lost in the transaction.

tac

 

[Dragonsfire]

Nice looking gun Been wanting a pepperbox myself.

 

[maple leaf]

What a beautiful piece of history!

 

[Londonshooter]

Nice looking gun Been wanting a pepperbox myself.

Well, you might see it on the EE in a couple weeks. Still unsure of keep it or not or what to ask if put up for sale.

 

[Londonshooter]

The other two I mentioned. Have a request in for consignment and estimate but no reply yet. Anyone care to venture a value for these?

 

[Londonshooter]

Pepperbox has been on the EE @ $900 as is with mild interest - is that price out to lunch?
The Manton and the Richards set will be in spring James Julia auction with estimates around $4k US each. Manton's shop of course the best of his era in London. Theophilus Richards was Westley Richards' grandfather so both lots from v. prestigious makers.

 

[Londonshooter]

anyone notice the typesetter mixed up lowercase "f" for "s"?
Alfo fells the beft Gunpowder and Shot.

 

[snurge]

anyone notice the typesetter mixed up lowercase "f" for "s"?
Alfo fells the beft Gunpowder and Shot.

Maybe they all had a lithp back then

 

[NorthCoastBigBore]

anyone notice the typesetter mixed up lowercase "f" for "s"?
Alfo fells the beft Gunpowder and Shot.

No mixup that was how they did it then. I have quite a few 18th and 19th century books, they do that in all up to mid-1800s or so. There was some rule on when and where it was employed so it wasnt done in every sentence but it was in some regular circumstances.

 

[josquin]

The other two I mentioned. Have a request in for consignment and estimate but no reply yet. Anyone care to venture a value for these?

Simply stunning!

I didn't know about Th. Richards. Here's a link to another splendid piece of his work- a 10-bore double-barelled "Coat pistol." And only $12,600, too. (A very different idea of "pocket carry" in those days!

BTW, this is what 26 High St. looks like today. His premises are now Café Boutique & Cake Shop, and there's an M&S just down the street. The area has obviously slipped a bit.

View attachment 127081

 

[bross]

I've seen similar pieces on the Rock Island Auction site. You can search previous auction and look up the prices realized. Gives you a ball park, but does not translate directly unto Canadian Market: different market interests and availability.

 

[Londonshooter]

No mixup that was how they did it then. I have quite a few 18th and 19th century books, they do that in all up to mid-1800s or so. There was some rule on when and where it was employed so it wasnt done in every sentence but it was in some regular circumstances.

Thanks! The things you learn here...
Likely also incorrect in thinking it was typeset but maybe a lino cut - or how would that label have been printed?

 

[josquin]

Thanks! The things you learn here...
Likely also incorrect in thinking it was typeset but maybe a lino cut - or how would that label have been printed?

It would have been typeset from cast lead type; I think the technical term is "slugs" for the individual letters. The individual letters were set/placed by hand. There were blanks to provide the appropriate spaces between sentences, as well as small slices for "kerning"- the subtle spacing of individual letters to ensure visual evenness. High-quality digital fonts today come with "kerning pairs" (pre-adjusted spacings for certain letter combinations) to reduce the need to make manual adjustments.

I have a Complete Works of Shakespeare from 1793 (M.DCC.XCIII for those who want to check my Roman numerals) that has the "f" for "s".

View attachment 127108

There is a couple out here, Crispin & Jan Elsted, who run Barbarian Press ; they have a 19th c. letterpress and do limited editions on it. There are a few other similar businesses across Canada. It's a laborious and painstaking process (like fine calligraphy) but the results are a work of art and have an almost tactile, or perhaps, three-dimensional, quality because you can see the subtle impression of the lead type.

Coincidentally, today is the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther nailing his famous 95 theses to the door of the church in Wittenberg. The success of the Reformation was partly due to his access to the relatively new technology of the printing press.