Ever notice how many shotguns are new and "never been fired"?

[3macs1]

I held a 20ga model 21 in my hands last week that was engraved by Angelo Bee while visiting William Larkin Moore in Scottsdale.

It had been fired though....

$12,000 USD

There are two nice 21's down here I know of and have been watching and trying to get for over 30 years
One is a 21 16ga skeet and the owner must be 80 now and still won't sell
The other is a two barrel set 20/28ga 30" barrels full/full. The 28ga barrel has never been fired

Some serious money I would say for that one when they decide to sell it
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

Friend of ours has a anniversary Harley motorcycle still on the crate. He will die never seeing that bike.
His kids will likely sell it for a profit.

Tell me again how much enjoyment he got from that bike, compared what he could be getting doing a cross country tour. Same applies to guns.

If you don't collect you don't understand and never will it is that plain and simple and it is not fair to judge how much enjoyment it gave him based on what you think enjoyment should be when you own a bike.For him having it is enough. Does he have another bike??
One in three people collect something so we are not as strange as you make it out to be
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

You got it and the few hundred bucks here or there who the hell cares and who cares if it's an old Remington Wingmaster or a high grade Model 21, or finely engraved A.H. Fox or Parker because when we're sitting in the nursing home wett'n our britches and drooling on our shirt good memories will bring enjoyment and put a big smile to our faces remembering those fine guns, Harleys and high performance cars we had during our life. . Topped off with the love a good woman, how could we ask for more. . Or live like Scrooge and let the kids fight over the money.

For sure.I agree with you 100% but then again I know you are one of those CRAZY collectors of firearms as I am Plus you have model 21's how cool is that
Cheers

 

[Claybuster]

Never seen one outside a gunstore. Must run in the wrong circles. If anyone happens to have an unfired Model 21, I'm listening...

Never understood the fascination with the 21. I recall seeing a higher-grade Model 21 at the Churchill Gun Room in West Wycombe. Alongside the pedigreed English doubles, the Winchester looked like Rosie O'Donnell at a supermodel's convention.

 

[browninggold]

if you don't collect you don't understand and never will it is that plain and simple and it is not fair to judge how much enjoyment it gave him based on what you think enjoyment should be when you own a bike.for him having it is enough. Does he have another bike??
One in three people collect something so we are not as strange as you make it out to be
cheers

That sums it up perfectly IMO. In my situation, wouldn't say I'm a 'collector' but I do buy/sell fairly often. I really don't get to hunt or shoot very often so for me finding and chasing certain guns down is the fun. Then you get it and stare at it a while, and sometimes the excitement wears off, so onto the next gun!

 

[heronfish]

If you don't collect you don't understand and never will it is that plain and simple and it is not fair to judge how much enjoyment it gave him based on what you think enjoyment should be when you own a bike.For him having it is enough. Does he have another bike??
One in three people collect something so we are not as strange as you make it out to be
Cheers

If you derive excitement and joy from cardboard boxes and wooden crates, you're correct, I will never understand.
It makes zero sense to me.
I'll still take my guns out hunting, take my expensive pup out chasing birds and kiss my beautiful wife. Life is meant to be lived, not for the next generation to sell.

 

[3macs1]

If you derive excitement and joy from cardboard boxes and wooden crates, you're correct, I will never understand.
It makes zero sense to me.
I'll still take my guns out hunting, take my expensive pup out chasing birds and kiss my beautiful wife. Life is meant to be lived, not for the next generation to sell.

Why are you having trouble doing two things at the same time
I collect and hug my unfired guns and boxes and I hunt with the same make and model of the gun normally I don't fire since I pretty much have two of each min. Kiss my wife when she is not cranky

I don't know your definition of an expensive pup that will chase birds but I also have two french britts that work just fine for my bird hunting the youngest is three and she was all of $2300 by the time I flew her here. Is that expensive I don't know. I know I could have got a springer or an american britt for 1/2 that but I wanted another French Britt

Why would you think I don't live life just because I collect also. I am far from rich but there is nothing I am lacking that I want or need.
I have never taken a dime out of my pay or household money for my collecting so who am I hurting

If I was taking my last breath today I would have just one regret that I thought working 16 hour days 6/7 days a week and giving my family what they wanted was the most important and I missed so much and for what money comes and goes but that first step or dada is priceless and I missed them
I should have spent more time home in the younger years with the family and I know that now. If there is ever a grand child it will be different for sure and I sure hope they like guns and old cars
Cheers

 

[heronfish]

I apologize that the point still eludes you. Material possessions are completely irrelevant, especially if they are never seen or used.
Life is hardly a game where the guy with the most toys or the biggest rrsp wins. And we will all run put of time before we run out of money.
If a cardboard box makes you feel excited, whole or satisfied compared to using what is inside, well . . . Enjoy that.

 

[BigUglyMan]

Never understood the fascination with the 21. I recall seeing a higher-grade Model 21 at the Churchill Gun Room in West Wycombe. Alongside the pedigreed English doubles, the Winchester looked like Rosie O'Donnell at a supermodel's convention.

I'll try to explain this situation as it's not a story of "name lust".

My Dad's go-to duck and goose gun in the years pre-steel shot was a beautifully stocked Model 21 that he hunted with for years. It's well worn from honest use and years of being carried and shot. Last fall when I went to Saskatchewan with my buddy (big hunter but had never even been west of Toronto let alone hunted in the West) I took it out and hunted with it. I had never fired the gun before but carrying my late-father's old faithful hunting gun just felt right. And then I started shooting and, honestly, I have never hit birds the way I did on that trip. High shots, long crossing shots and my first double (on a pair of crossing Canada's). The damned thing just wanted to knock birds out of the sky, and knock birds down it did. I probably had the best days of shooting ever on that trip and the best days of the trip were with that gun. When my brother and I split up Dad's guns I knew that we both wanted that gun. But I had a rank-ordered list of guns I wanted and I knew that I wouldn't get all the ones that I wanted and, being more of a rifleman, I made a deal with my brother to give him first pick (Dad's laid out that we were to draw straws and the winner got first pick and the other guy got second and third, then alternate) And I would take Dad's safe and second and third, then we would draw straws for fourth pick (I won that draw...he near had a stroke!). I ended up getting the majority of the top choices on my list but that shotgun is one of the two top guns that he owned.

So, to sum it up, I'm not really married to the 21...just that 21. I could give a #### about Parkers, L.C. Smiths any of the American guns. But if I can't have that 21 (and unless I push my brother down the stairs, I can't have it) the closest I can get is a 21.

 

[Claybuster]

I'll try to explain this situation as it's not a story of "name lust".

My Dad's go-to duck and goose gun in the years pre-steel shot was a beautifully stocked Model 21 that he hunted with for years. It's well worn from honest use and years of being carried and shot. Last fall when I went to Saskatchewan with my buddy (big hunter but had never even been west of Toronto let alone hunted in the West) I took it out and hunted with it. I had never fired the gun before but carrying my late-father's old faithful hunting gun just felt right. And then I started shooting and, honestly, I have never hit birds the way I did on that trip. High shots, long crossing shots and my first double (on a pair of crossing Canada's). The damned thing just wanted to knock birds out of the sky, and knock birds down it did. I probably had the best days of shooting ever on that trip and the best days of the trip were with that gun. When my brother and I split up Dad's guns I knew that we both wanted that gun. But I had a rank-ordered list of guns I wanted and I knew that I wouldn't get all the ones that I wanted and, being more of a rifleman, I made a deal with my brother to give him first pick (Dad's laid out that we were to draw straws and the winner got first pick and the other guy got second and third, then alternate) And I would take Dad's safe and second and third, then we would draw straws for fourth pick (I won that draw...he near had a stroke!). I ended up getting the majority of the top choices on my list but that shotgun is one of the two top guns that he owned.

So, to sum it up, I'm not really married to the 21...just that 21. I could give a #### about Parkers, L.C. Smiths any of the American guns. But if I can't have that 21 (and unless I push my brother down the stairs, I can't have it) the closest I can get is a 21.

That makes sense. Here's hoping you one day get a 21 just like your dad's. I'll keep my eye open and send you a PM if I come across one.

 

[Rod]

Never understood the fascination with the 21. I recall seeing a higher-grade Model 21 at the Churchill Gun Room in West Wycombe. Alongside the pedigreed English doubles, the Winchester looked like Rosie O'Donnell at a supermodel's convention.

Some folks have different likes and dislikes and the british doubles are a favorite amomg many upland hunters. . .I've owned and shot many well made doubles over the years including a few English best guns. . Yes they were light to carry and nice to look at but the 2 1/2" chambers were a pain but what I didn't care for most was the way the trigger guards would smack my middle finger and leave a lump. . I don't mind recoil at all but the few of them I shot seem to have a recoil I didn't care for. . Possibly I just wasn't used them and preferred the American made doubles, I don't really know but suspected the stocks were too short with too much drop??

Aside from a couple of European doubles, the American doubles I kept were M21's and an A.H. Fox H grade. . The buttstocks on the M21 fit me perfect, the weight and balance suits me, I shoot them well and I find them to be a handsome shotgun. . Also, when John Olin was perfecting the M21, he decided right off to build the best and strongest double possible. . The Model 21 is still a modern design and over proofed by 150%. . Very seldom do you find a well used M21 loose and off face. They are one American gun that can be restored, refinished and still hold their value. . Even from the American doubles I've owned, including L.C. Smith, Parker, Ithaca and 1894 Remingtons, the Model 21 is my favorite. I like my A.H. Fox as well but so damn heavy.

 

[3macs1]

I apologize that the point still eludes you. Material possessions are completely irrelevant, especially if they are never seen or used.
Life is hardly a game where the guy with the most toys or the biggest rrsp wins. And we will all run put of time before we run out of money.
If a cardboard box makes you feel excited, whole or satisfied compared to using what is inside, well . . . Enjoy that.

Ya think LOL. Figured that one out myself after given 2 years due to cancer but once again got lucky and it is now almost 13 years ago
Kind of changed my thinking and your point doesn't elude me I just don't agree with you that is all and I apologize you cannot grasp that
Also don't be so sure we will run out of time before money, if one doesn't plan and take care of their later years old age pension will be very rough to live on in fact just about impossible
Cheers

 

[sillymike]

I apologize that the point still eludes you. Material possessions are completely irrelevant, especially if they are never seen or used.
Life is hardly a game where the guy with the most toys or the biggest rrsp wins. And we will all run put of time before we run out of money.
If a cardboard box makes you feel excited, whole or satisfied compared to using what is inside, well . . . Enjoy that.

Agree that material possession are irrelevant...

This been said, if you have a good job that pays well... at some point in time your house will be paid off, your car will be paid off, your RRSP will be maxed out and you'll end up disposable income.
- Some guys would rather have the $ in a gun sitting in a box in the gunroom, than in a bank account.

 

[caramel]

Agree that material possession are irrelevant...

This been said, if you have a good job that pays well... at some point in time your house will be paid off, your car will be paid off, your RRSP will be maxed out and you'll end up disposable income.
- Some guys would rather have the $ in a gun sitting in a box in the gunroom, than in a bank account.

Best post of this tread... JP.

 

[heronfish]

Agree that material possession are irrelevant...

This been said, if you have a good job that pays well... at some point in time your house will be paid off, your car will be paid off, your RRSP will be maxed out and you'll end up disposable income.
- Some guys would rather have the $ in a gun sitting in a box in the gunroom, than in a bank account.

Again, I'm not disagreeing.
I decided earlier this year, with several rifles I had never fired sitting in the gun cabinet, that they weren't doing anything for me.
I decided then that I would sell those surplus toys that gave me enjoyment when I first purchased them and nothing since, and would instead put that money towards hunts. So now there are trips tentatively planned for several locales that I have never seen to enjoy things I have never experienced. Cardboard box guy is saving those experiences for the heirs of his estate.

 

[phinton81]

This thread is basically an argument over what adults should be doing with their disposable income and private property. Who gives a fiddlers #####? If you want to shoot em, great, if you want to keep em in the box, great, if you want to dress them up and take them to bed, have at it. Honestly, some of you can't open your mouth without arguing or offering up your opinion in the absence of anyone asking for it.

Patrick

 

[heronfish]

This thread is basically an argument over what adults should be doing with their disposable income and private property. Who gives a fiddlers #####? If you want to shoot em, great, if you want to keep em in the box, great, if you want to dress them up and take them to bed, have at it. Honestly, some of you can't open your mouth without arguing or offering up your opinion in the absence of anyone asking for it.

Patrick

If it wasn't for people casting an opinion about what others Do, there would be no internet forums. Still, I am glad some guys don't fire their guns. Leaves great ones for me to buy and use.

 

[3macs1]

If it wasn't for people casting an opinion about what others Do, there would be no internet forums. Still, I am glad some guys don't fire their guns. Leaves great ones for me to buy and use.

We agree 100% on this one
all the best

 

[BigUglyMan]

That makes sense. Here's hoping you one day get a 21 just like your dad's. I'll keep my eye open and send you a PM if I come across one.

I suppose my initial post should have been about a well-worn and loved gun rather than a new one. Or a spare key to my brother's house...he probably wouldn't notice for a while.

 

[3macs1]

I suppose my initial post should have been about a well-worn and loved gun rather than a new one. Or a spare key to my brother's house...he probably wouldn't notice for a while.

I think a lot of us may a connection to the 21 simply because of exposure to them growing up. I have my grandfathers and still remember hearing him say these will be yours someday and if you take care of them they will outlast you
He was right
Cheers