- Location
- Brant County, Ontario
Now that I'm on my PC I we that a lot better the blown primers better. The rest look perfectly normal.
Are these rounds over pressure?
- Thread starter rkm456
- Start date
I'd stop shooting it. I had a issue with some Winchester ammo on a brand new savage 10 and it bent my ejector and crushed the spring. It was under warranty but I paid a gunsmith check the headspace and the gun out and ultimately fix the ejector anyways rather than send it out.. I contacted Winchester and they suggested I send the gun and remaining ammo to them so they could check it out and for the $30 box of ammo and the $120 it cost me to have the gun repaired it was the best course of action.
check out my 3rd or 4th post for pics. NOTE: one of the fired rounds looks totally normal in the picture as well as a few before that that aren't shown. you may be heading towards more issues if you keep firing that box. at least try another box of ammo with a different batch or a different brand.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1588366-Savage-10t-ejector-issue
check out my 3rd or 4th post for pics. NOTE: one of the fired rounds looks totally normal in the picture as well as a few before that that aren't shown. you may be heading towards more issues if you keep firing that box. at least try another box of ammo with a different batch or a different brand.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1588366-Savage-10t-ejector-issue
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flat primers itself can mean other than high pressure. but brass flowing on the ejector pin is a sign of excessive pressure. it does not mean it is related to the amo. but you must investigate before you dammage your rifle or get a brass failure.
how old is your rifle?
how many shots have you fired before you see ejector marks on your brass?
how do you clean your rifle? do you remove all copper when you clean? do you have acces to a borescope to check condition of barrel?
have you checked your amo in another rifle?
I have see new barrels to build up so much copper that I had to remove copper every 10 shots strings a couple of times before it settle down (when I start a new barrel, I carry the borescope in the field)
how old is your rifle?
how many shots have you fired before you see ejector marks on your brass?
how do you clean your rifle? do you remove all copper when you clean? do you have acces to a borescope to check condition of barrel?
have you checked your amo in another rifle?
I have see new barrels to build up so much copper that I had to remove copper every 10 shots strings a couple of times before it settle down (when I start a new barrel, I carry the borescope in the field)
Leatherstocking
CGN Regular
- Location
- BC Rockies
Hodgedon on Pressure Signs:
SIMPLE TRICK FOR MONITORING PRESSURE OF YOUR RIFLE RELOADS
One of the first rules of handloading is to always follow the approved reload data. The cautious reloader gradually works up to approved maximum loads to ensure his particular gun does not show pressure signs. Generally this is visual observation of the fired shell case head and primer. There is another slick way to check for pressure signs if you are interested.
Using a blade micrometer that measures in ten thousandths (.0001"), new, unfired cases can be gauged before and after firing to determine reasonably accurate maximum loads. Micrometers measuring in thousandths (.001") are insufficiently accurate to perform these measurements, and should not be used. Previously fired cases cannot be used accurately due to various levels of brass hardening. Measurement is taken just ahead of the extractor groove on the case head and must be taken at the same place on the case before and after firing. By placing a small mark on the case head –#entering the cartridge in the chamber with mark at 12 o’clock –#a consistently accurate measurement can be taken with each firing.#
Lower pressure rounds, like the .30-30 Winchester, usually yield maximum pressures at .0003"-.0004" expansion. Modern cartridges, like the .223 Remington, will show maximum pressure at .0004"-.0005", while .308 Winchester, .270 Winchester, etc., typically yield .0005"-.0006" expansion at max pressure. Magnums, like the .300 Winchester Magnum, show maximums at .0006”-.0007” expansion, and should be measured on the belt.#
In conjunction with these measurements, case head signs of pressure should be monitored as well. These signs include very flat primers, slightly cratered primers, ejector marks on the case head, and stiff extraction. All these case head signs indicate high pressure, and loads should be reduced until these signs disappear.
As always, start with the beginning load listed, and cautiously work up to the maximum shown for that set of components, using the methods listed herein.
SIMPLE TRICK FOR MONITORING PRESSURE OF YOUR RIFLE RELOADS
One of the first rules of handloading is to always follow the approved reload data. The cautious reloader gradually works up to approved maximum loads to ensure his particular gun does not show pressure signs. Generally this is visual observation of the fired shell case head and primer. There is another slick way to check for pressure signs if you are interested.
Using a blade micrometer that measures in ten thousandths (.0001"), new, unfired cases can be gauged before and after firing to determine reasonably accurate maximum loads. Micrometers measuring in thousandths (.001") are insufficiently accurate to perform these measurements, and should not be used. Previously fired cases cannot be used accurately due to various levels of brass hardening. Measurement is taken just ahead of the extractor groove on the case head and must be taken at the same place on the case before and after firing. By placing a small mark on the case head –#entering the cartridge in the chamber with mark at 12 o’clock –#a consistently accurate measurement can be taken with each firing.#
Lower pressure rounds, like the .30-30 Winchester, usually yield maximum pressures at .0003"-.0004" expansion. Modern cartridges, like the .223 Remington, will show maximum pressure at .0004"-.0005", while .308 Winchester, .270 Winchester, etc., typically yield .0005"-.0006" expansion at max pressure. Magnums, like the .300 Winchester Magnum, show maximums at .0006”-.0007” expansion, and should be measured on the belt.#
In conjunction with these measurements, case head signs of pressure should be monitored as well. These signs include very flat primers, slightly cratered primers, ejector marks on the case head, and stiff extraction. All these case head signs indicate high pressure, and loads should be reduced until these signs disappear.
As always, start with the beginning load listed, and cautiously work up to the maximum shown for that set of components, using the methods listed herein.
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
Usually resistance to opening the action is a more conclusive over-pressure sign. Other apparent over-pressure symptoms like blown primers can occur below specified maximum allowable operating pressure if headspace is excessive for example.
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saltednutz
Regular
- Location
- God's Country ᐋᕘᑕ
Qqq
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Primers flatten differently depending on the brand and type of primers. The only conclusive way to determine overpressure is to measure pressure. Measuring velocity is a good proxy, if you compare your measurement with other velocity/pressure measurements for similar bullets and powder. Since you don't know which powder was used to make these, that's not particularly helpful, unless the velocity is way up there.
You could buy another box of the same ammo, but with a different lot number, suppose that the new box doesn't create overpressure, and chrony them as you baseline. If the suspect ammo are significantly faster, there's a chance they create overpressure.
When you buy ammos loaded by someone else (either new ammos or commercial reloads), you kind of put your thrust in them that they know what they're doing and have sufficient QC. Other than pulling the bullets and reloading them to your specs, there isn't much you can do.
You could buy another box of the same ammo, but with a different lot number, suppose that the new box doesn't create overpressure, and chrony them as you baseline. If the suspect ammo are significantly faster, there's a chance they create overpressure.
When you buy ammos loaded by someone else (either new ammos or commercial reloads), you kind of put your thrust in them that they know what they're doing and have sufficient QC. Other than pulling the bullets and reloading them to your specs, there isn't much you can do.
They should be fine except the one without the primer. Look(feel) for loose primer pockets next time you prime these cases.
Factory ammo is probably not hot in a SAAMI barrel. It could be too hot for your rifle. each rifle is different. And an oiled chamber makes ordinary ammo a proof round. Not good!
The two reliable ways to see that ammo is too hot in a given rifle is a shiny spot on the case head where brass got extruded into the ejector hole on the bolt face. and a harder bolt lift.
primer condition is very unreliable. But a blown primer means something is wrong.
Dry the chamber with a patch and some gas, brake cleaner, lighter fluid, etc.
The two reliable ways to see that ammo is too hot in a given rifle is a shiny spot on the case head where brass got extruded into the ejector hole on the bolt face. and a harder bolt lift.
primer condition is very unreliable. But a blown primer means something is wrong.
Dry the chamber with a patch and some gas, brake cleaner, lighter fluid, etc.
Hi
If im not mistaken you are a stittsville member with a savage 10tr?
If you are shooting savage 10tr, mine has a hard time with factory ammo.
Rifling starts too soon (lands), and factory ammo is too long. Causing me to have to force bolt shut and i had pressure signs.
Since i reload it’s a good thing as it gives me plenty of mag space to lengthen loads as throat erodes, if i was only shooting factory i would of returned my rifle.
I can bring an OAL tool with bullet comprator tonthe range sometime if ever you want to see where your lands are at
If im not mistaken you are a stittsville member with a savage 10tr?
If you are shooting savage 10tr, mine has a hard time with factory ammo.
Rifling starts too soon (lands), and factory ammo is too long. Causing me to have to force bolt shut and i had pressure signs.
Since i reload it’s a good thing as it gives me plenty of mag space to lengthen loads as throat erodes, if i was only shooting factory i would of returned my rifle.
I can bring an OAL tool with bullet comprator tonthe range sometime if ever you want to see where your lands are at
Thanks for the insight Ganderite, you've always demonstrated excellent knowledge. The bolt didn't give me any issues at all, which is another reason I suspect that oil on the bolt face/ in the chamber is the likely issue. I'll bring some brake cleaner home tomorrow and dry it out as best as possible.
