XCR-M or Keltec RFB
- Thread starter ArmedGinger
- Start date
At well over 9 pounds empty and without optics couldn't the same be said of the XCR-M? And a well tuned M1A should be more accurate than an XCR-M.
It really comes down to what a person wants to do with the rifle, every option has it's advantages and disadvantages over the others depending on what type of shooting you are doing with it.
Are you saying the XCR-M is lighter than what the manufacturer claims it is? Or are you saying that the XCR-M is more accurate than a well tuned M1A?
Either way, you may need to step back and take a little more objective look at the XCR platform. I'm not bashing it and will fully agree that they have come a long way from the early L models but they are not 1 moa rifles and I would go as far as to say you'd have a hard time proving they were capable of consistently doing 1.5 moa. One lucky group does not make it so. As a comparison, my highly modified M305 (the receiver is pretty much the only thing that is still Norinco) was printing groups around 1.5 moa and I've only done one set of workup loads with one powder and projectile combo so far showing that there is potential for much better accuracy than what I've seen so far from my limited testing.
Now of course by saying a well tuned M1A we are implying that some work has been done to improve it's accuracy but going by new price to new price an M1A has some money left over to do some of that work.
Regardless, I don't think the OP would be happy with either of those or the RFB. If I were him and I wanted a 102 but didn't want to wait I would just get on the list and wait for it anyway, they are all quite different from each other and the 102 will be lighter and cheaper that leaves money for ammo and maybe a new trigger. From the reports I've seen so far I would be looking to replace the barrel as well if consistent accuracy was also a desire.
Honestly, for a 308 semi auto platform, I would skip them all and save up for a Modern Hunter. Mine is reliable and accurate and other than it only working with gen 2 pmags I have no complaints so far. I've got a pretty good load for it now that has been producing group after group all hovering around 1 moa. I still need to do some more testing to see if I can do a better job behind the trigger and also to ensure that the load is in fact consistent but it's looking very promising. Yes it's a lot of money for one but to me I think it was worth it. I have a 9 pound rifle that can shoot well and has support from the manufacturer who lucky for me is a 4 hour drive from my house.
My second choice would probably be either the XCR-M or an FNAR. The new XCR's are a pretty decent rifle and even though they aren't know for their accuracy they are good enough for any practical field use. I liked my RFB but found that I always grabbed my Rem 700 for hunting and since they are about the same as an XCR for accuracy it was never used for shooting at the range other than during load development which wore thin and I sold it. If the 102 was showing to be more consistent in both the accuracy and build quality standpoints I would move it to my second choice but as is so far I'd take an XCR over the 102 especially considering a used keymod version can be had for just over $2000.
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Which part? Accuracy or weight?
Manufacturer claims 9.25 pounds empty no optics for the keymod M with 18.6" light barrel, my M305 with medium Krieger barrel in a blackfeather chassis is 10.5 pounds without optics, and my Modern Hunter is 9 pounds without optic so they are all close enough that after an hour you're used to whichever one you're holding.
Just so you know, I'm not anti XCR, I'm actually kinda shopping for one in x39. I've just never seen one in 223 or 308 shoot any better than 1.5 moa and that was not consistent, the overall average was more like 2-2.5 (some were worse but that could have been entirely ammo related) which isn't terrible and is more than enough for actual use away from the gun range and sandbags and is similar to what most rifles get. This is where the 102 should have more potential, if NEA had put in some better barrels they would be seeing much more consistent results, so with a trigger and a barrel I see no reason the 102 shouldn't be able to match the Modern Hunter for accuracy, problem is that a quality barrel is going to cost $400+ and a trigger is around $400 for the fancy ones most guys opt for (I would put in an ALG ACT for $100) which brings the price up substantially and you've still got an NEA/BCL rifle in the end.
This is why I feel that a Modern Hunter is the best path for someone who wants accuracy to go along with the rest of the package. If they would ditch the "match" chamber in the MH and the 102 they would increase reliability by a huge margin and the accuracy loss would hardly be noticeable to the average gun nut. At $3000+ for a new XCR-M I'll take a base model MH every time. Go to the used market where XCR's are $2000 for a low round count unit and the rifle really becomes appealing.
As I said, they all have their ups and downs and only the person buying it knows what type of shooting they do the most and from that they should be able to figure out which rifle suits their needs the best.
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I'd say prices are and will be comming down.... that link above is of the one I recently purchased. Mine's wearing a Vortex cf II 6-18X44 ao w/ weaver msr quick release mounts.
I was all about a 102 as well. Gonna give them at least a year to iron their $hit out.
I was all about a 102 as well. Gonna give them at least a year to iron their $hit out.
If it’s the BCL-102 you want, hang in there. I think some of the negativity aside, I believe it is going to be worth the wait.
I’ve played with both the XCR and RFB and they both leave a lot wanting - especially for the coin.
The Modern Hunter less so.
I’ve owned and continue to own a number of semi auto .308s and have zero interest in the Modern Hunter, XCR or the RFB.
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Erickson5006
Regular
- Location
- Bonnyville Alberta
I love my RFB for packing it around with me everywhere I go. Great anti-predation rifle for a farmer! I've never even tried to group it though. I use it for a "quick access while in a tractor cab" purpose with a 3x spitfire optic.
Negatives ive had are that it doesn't sit in a lead sled while sighting in, and thermold mags are inconsistent, and Fal metric mags are hard to get a hold of, it seems. Also, I have to slap the mag in each time. It'll never click fully by just pushing up.
I also over gas mine a couple clicks because I had feeding issues initially (although mostly double feeds)
I would love to get a 6.5 creeedmore in a 24" hunter one day...
Negatives ive had are that it doesn't sit in a lead sled while sighting in, and thermold mags are inconsistent, and Fal metric mags are hard to get a hold of, it seems. Also, I have to slap the mag in each time. It'll never click fully by just pushing up.
I also over gas mine a couple clicks because I had feeding issues initially (although mostly double feeds)
I would love to get a 6.5 creeedmore in a 24" hunter one day...
I would never go with the 24" version, I spoke to Kel-Tec directly and it's the same barrel from the 18-24 inch they just cut it longer so you will see no increase in accuracy and only a decrease in maneuverability. If you think that longer means more accurate you would be incorrect. You only get an increase in velocity all other factors being equal.
The 100ish fps increase in velocity is not worth it in my opinion, I'd rather dial up a couple more clicks for a long shot than deal with six inches more length on a bullpup which most people buy for the compact package. These are not accurate rifles anyway so the chances of shooting far enough to actually utilize a little more velocity is slim.
If you're just going to follow people around trying to pick fights you can go Fk your hat.
Your posts hardly make sense and you really say nothing other than stirring up arguments. I'm looking forward to seeing your name in pink.
Erickson5006
Regular
- Location
- Bonnyville Alberta
Why would his name be pink?
And I have heard that the tilting bolt designs are inherently not as accurate. I heard that the designers dream was to make a 24" long range magnum, but maybe that's why it's never been released. 24" barrel being the minimum to get a good burn with slower powders, and less so for accuracy
And I have heard that the tilting bolt designs are inherently not as accurate. I heard that the designers dream was to make a 24" long range magnum, but maybe that's why it's never been released. 24" barrel being the minimum to get a good burn with slower powders, and less so for accuracy
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With all due respect I'll disagree with you there. Is it a sub MOA rifle? No but most carry guns out there are not: at least not out of thebox they aren't. I like my RFB and find it shoots well. Again, like so many other of my rifles I have shot it out to 600m which is a common range for me. Using Norinco steel case ammo, as well as other "reputable" ammo and shooting from the sitting position (butt on the ground, not at a bench) I can consistently hit man sized steel silhouette targets. The rifle is plenty accurate.
People gonna hate just like the XCR's, ACR's MV etc etc. Doesn't necessarily mean others' opinions are incorrect.
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If you're disagreeing with my comments about the 24 inch barrel being no better than the 18.6 I spoke directly to Kel-Tec and was told it is the exact same barrel cut longer.
I loved my RFB, it was reliable and accurate enough for field use but it and the RFB's of most people who posted results easily show it is not a 1 moa shooter.
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Eating my own words here. XCR's are 'still' excellent rifles.
I had bad experiences with a number of Kel-Tecs that soured me. Over the last year, I got an number of Kel-Tec's including; RFB Carbine, RFB Hunter and RDB, (giving in to the bullpup preference) these are much better in every way than my previous experiences. I hope they continue to impress.
I had bad experiences with a number of Kel-Tecs that soured me. Over the last year, I got an number of Kel-Tec's including; RFB Carbine, RFB Hunter and RDB, (giving in to the bullpup preference) these are much better in every way than my previous experiences. I hope they continue to impress.
