FL Bushing dies, Neck Bushing Dies or Standard resizing dies?

tinymike66

tinymike66

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Hello,
so I am looking to order dies this weekend for loading 6.5 creedmoor
I have been doing some research and what I come up with are the Redding Type S FL bushing die.
Know I know these dies require the proper bushing and some work needs to be done in determining that.
When using the bushings, is neck turning a must?

I was going to ue a Forester Bench Rest Ultra Micrometer seater die.

According to Larry Willis, he suggests FL sizing everytime.
I do not mind investing in the reloading process for accurate Ammo.

Any suggestions?
Can you use bushing dies and not neck turn,

Are standard dies just as good or better?
should I neck size only?

any feedback would be great!

thanks

Oh I was also considering Wilson camber type seater die, but them I wold have to buy an arbor press
 
Just FL size with a bench rest FL sizing die (Forster). Simple and less hassle involved.
 
Honestly, I recommend buying the redding deluxe die set. It includes a neck die. I love neck dies since there is less material being worked when resizing the brass and the shoulder is now perfectly formed to the chamber. There is less trimming, it's easier to size and is fairly inexpensive to buy. You will probably want to full length resize after about 5 firings to "reset" the brass to factory. If you are wanting more accuracy after this, at least you will have gained experience from starting small, and you likely gain the most accuracy from bullet seating length than you will get from any fancy die set

No need to jump straight into the deep end off the start. Buying accurate callipers, is $ better spent than expensive dies if you are getting to get into reloading and want quality equipment Imo.
 
ekoso said:
Honestly, I recommend buying the redding deluxe die set. It includes a neck die. I love neck dies since there is less material being worked when resizing the brass and the shoulder is now perfectly formed to the chamber. There is less trimming, it's easier to size and is fairly inexpensive to buy. You will probably want to full length resize after about 5 firings to "reset" the brass to factory. If you are wanting more accuracy after this, at least you will have gained experience from starting small, and you likely gain the most accuracy from bullet seating length than you will get from any fancy die set

No need to jump straight into the deep end off the start. Buying accurate callipers, is $ better spent than expensive dies if you are getting to get into reloading and want quality equipment Imo.
Click to expand...

I am not new to reloading at all.
Just new to loading for long range.
I am looking for quality reloads and accuracy.
So going with dies to only have to replace them for better makes no sense to me.
I'm shooting 3 shot groups @ .484 @ 100yrds with Hornady ELD MATCH 120gr.

I know 100yrds isn't far ..but I'm just getting into the rifle thing.
 
I highly recommend just FL dies, i have heard that neck sizing dies is what to use for accuracy from some people, but honestly i have not seen a difference. The claim is that it will allow your brass to last longer. I did neck sizing for a bit because i was new to reloading and i got a few firings out of the brass then the brass ended up expanding so much that extraction was becoming difficult. Im pretty sure most bench-rest and F-class guys just do the FL resizing. Use quality brass and a good FL dies and you will be OK
 
I would neck turn and use the bushing dies, or just get a neck sizing die. The redding set I have came with the bushing neck die and a body sizing due to set the shoulder back. So far for the creedmoor I started out with a hornady full length sizer and seater, then bought a redding neck sizer and now have the redding bushing one with body sizer. Next I will have to pick up the competition shell holder set for bumping the shoulder back.

I quit cleaning and using lube on my brass too(unless body sizing). It's a lot less work and seems to be better results.
 
At the Whidden custom die website they tell you the most concentric ammunition is sized with non-bushing full length dies.

Bushing dies work best with custom tight neck chambers with neck turned brass. And the Redding bushing dies come with a expander for those who do not turn their necks. Also if your reduce the neck diameter .004 or more with a bushing die it will induce neck runout. This is why it is recommended to reduce the neck diameter in two steps if reducing .004 or more in diameter. This is because the bushing floats and can move side to side and even tilt when reducing the diameter .004 or more "OR" when sizing cases with unequal neck thickness.


Bushing vs Non-Bushing Sizer Dies
http://www.whiddengunworks.com/standard-reloading-dies/

Quite often we hear the question “What is the difference between a bushing full length sizer die and a non-bushing full length sizer die and which is best?”

Full length sizer dies can be broken down into two types. With no preference on either, these types include the bushing sizer die and the non-bushing sizer die.

The bushing sizer die uses a bushing to aid in the sizing of the neck while the body of the die does the sizing of the case body. When sizing the case, the bushing of the die is pressed around the outside of the neck just after the expander ball of the die passes through the neck. As the neck enters the bushing the bushing applies a predetermined amount of tension on the neck. The amount of tension is determined by the size of bushing used. As this action is performed the inconsistencies of the case neck wall are forced to the inside of the neck. As the sizer die is removed from the case the bushing exits the case neck and the expander ball returns through the neck. The diameter of the expander ball will determine the neck tension. When this action occurs the inconsistencies of the case neck wall are forced back to the outside of the neck case. In our experience this allows for a more consistent neck tension when the case is loaded.

Some shooters prefer using no expander ball with a bushing die. In this case the expander ball is replaced with a pin retainer. The pin retainer is used to retain the decapping pin and protects the stem of the die. It serves no function in sizing. When a bushing sizer die is used with no expander ball, neck sizing is done by the bushing itself. With this method the amount of neck tension is determined by the size of the bushing as it is the only and last area of the die to be in contact with the neck of the case.

The non-bushing sizer die works basically like the bushing sizer die. However, the non-bushing sizer die uses an expander ball to size the neck of the case. The expander ball passes through the neck of the case and sets the amount of neck tension. The non-bushing die is designed to size the outside of the neck as the case enters the body of the die. In determining neck tension with the non-bushing sizer die, simply change the expander ball size to obtain the desired amount of tension.

So now, which is best? We’ll let you decide....

The bushing sizer die allows more flexibility in the amount of neck sizing. This is beneficial when changing brands of brass, neck turning brass to achieve different wall thickness and experimenting with different neck tensions in loading. To ease case neck entry into the bushing, all bushings have a small radius on the inside edge. This radius doesn’t allow the sizing of the case neck fully to the shoulder.

The non-bushing sizer die typically yields more concentric ammo in our experience. It also fully sizes the case neck fully to the shoulder for smoother functioning. Neck tension can only be determined by changing expander balls with the non-bushing die.

Bottom line I get the most concentric ammunition with the least neck runout with Forster full length benchrest dies. On top of this you can send your Forster full length dies back to them and they will hone the dies neck to your desired diameter.

Too much of what benchrest shooters do filters down with their custom made rifles to the average reloader with their off the shelf factory rifles. And much of what benchrest shooters do is simply not needed with little to no improvement in factory rifles with larger SAAMI chambers.
 
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