An Update on Wanstalls M10x pre-order!

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madashell said:
But this isn't ??

"No update on the likely coming price screw over .... but look at this shiny thing you can buy from us !"

Probably should have gone about the no update update a different way ya know ?
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This is their forum section, they pay for it therefore they can advertise whatever they wish.
 
CyprusTM said:
This is their forum section, they pay for it therefore they can advertise whatever they wish.
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Fully understand that, but what's APPROPRIATE is another matter because of the almost no-win situation.

Maybe starting another thread for the scope would have been a touch classier ?
 
Bartok5 said:
The writer of the article (a SAR regular) is clearly very positively impressed by the M10X and it's designer, Michael Meier. This bodes well for the rifle, as SAR typically does not write puff-piece reviews. They are not beholden to the major manufacturers and never hesitate to point out design deficiencies or manufacturing problems. SAR found no fault with the M10X,, instead singing it's praises for design simplicity, accuracy and rapid-fire reliability. Even heat mitigation is addressed in a positive light, thanks to early venting of excess gas and ample ventilation through the handguard. In summing up the M10X, the reviewer notes that at 7.7 lbs (with the 16.5" barrel), the rifle is lighter than the SCAR (L), XCR-L, or Galil ACE. He goes on to observe that the M10X is less expensive than its direct competitors and asserts that Mr. Meier has achieved the "Holy Grail" of small arms design by combining AR accuracy with simplicity surpassing that of the AK, with modularity built-in from the outset. The reviewer bases these assertions on the fact that testing reveals 1 MOA accuracy with match ammo, and that the M10X contains far less parts than an AK (53 versus 70+).

A final note for those fixated on the "sand test" is that M+M will be offering the snap-in gaskets shown in one of the on-line videos by the time the Dec 17 issue of SAR hits the shelves. These gaskets will seal the cocking handle slots in the receiver against dust and debris, rendering the M10X impervious to the elements. It would seem that M+M are truly receptive to suggestions for product improvement.

Another positive review, this time by a reputable firearms periodical. So much for the haters and their baseless design complaints....


PS. The YouTube video that shows the cocking slot gasket upgrade is called "M+M Inc SHOT Show 2016 - New SBRS and More!". Discussion of the gaskets starts at 1:37
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Good to know! Let the haters read this lol
 
MustangFrank said:
It's highly inappropriate. You should know better. You can edit your post you know.
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They don't seem to have a problem with a little friendly competition between Canadian retailers.
It's their thread, they can delete it if they want to.

The receiver gaskets should be standard issue, not sold separately.
 
cr5 said:
They don't seem to have a problem with a little friendly competition between Canadian retailers.
It's their thread, they can delete it if they want to.

The receiver gaskets should be standard issue, not sold separately.
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Theres really no friendly competition in firearms industry in Canada. Look at TSE and other stories of complaints of other retailers selling lower than the other. Even going as far as not allowing items from the US to be sold to Canada or certain retailers.
 
cr5 said:
They don't seem to have a problem with a little friendly competition between Canadian retailers.
It's their thread, they can delete it if they want to.

The receiver gaskets should be standard issue, not sold separately.
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Where in the video does it say that the gaskets must be paid for separately? Mr Meier talks about them being available to existing owners of the M10X as an option, which only makes sense. Just because the rifle is designed to be forward-compatible doesn't mean that M+M should be on the hook for fielding incremental upgrades to existing customers. No other company does that, unless they are dealing with a safety-related recall.

As I understand it from the SAR article, the gaskets will simply be among the "rolling improvements" fielded on new-production rifles rolling off the assembly line as of a certain date this December. The article did not mention a price increase to new rifles as a result of the gasket addition. Just as there was no price increase for changing the muzzle thread to North American Standard from European. The gaskets will be 'standard issue" soon enough.

Wiĺl the pre-sale rifles have the gasket upgrade factory-installed? Only time will tell. If I have to pay for the upgrade after the fact, I will consider it. I don't make a habit of throwing my rifles into sand and gravel pits, so I don't really anticipate any reliability issues associated with the cocking slots. Others may have differing needs, so each to their own.
 
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Bartok5 said:
Where in the video does it say that the gaskets must be paid for separately? Mr Meier talks about them being available to existing owners of the M10X as an option, which only makes sense. Just because the rifle is designed to be forward-compatible doesn't mean that M+M should be on the hook for fielding incremental upgrades to existing customers. No other company does that, unless they are dealing with a safety-related recall.

As I understand it from the SAR article, the gaskets will simply be among the "rolling improvements" fielded on new-production rifles rolling off the assembly line as of a certain date this December. The article did not mention a price increase to new rifles as a result of the gasket addition. Just as there was no price increase for changing the muzzle thread to North American Standard from European. The gaskets will be 'standard issue" soon enough.

Wiĺl the pre-sale rifles have the gasket upgrade factory-installed? Only time will tell. If I have to pay for the upgrade after the fact, I will consider it. I don't make a habit of throwing my rifles into sand and gravel pits, so I don't really anticipate any reliability issues associated with the cocking slots. Others may have differing needs, so each to their own.
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I didn't watch the video about the gaskets, just saying they should come with the rifles not be an add-on later. I hope all the pre-sale rifles and all future imports come with them. You're right and I don't expect them to ship out a set to every person who already owns a rifle but all new production units should have them.
To me "available as an option" also means for an additional cost. It makes sense to seal up the receiver as much as possible regardless of how a person intends to use their rifle.
Even if a person is only going to use it at the range and it just goes from the safe to the case to the range and back I would want them installed.
 
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cr5 said:
They don't seem to have a problem with a little friendly competition between Canadian retailers.
It's their thread, they can delete it if they want to..
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It's not up to you to decide if they need competition and they shouldn't have to clean up after you.
 
Sinasta said:
Theres really no friendly competition in firearms industry in Canada. Look at TSE and other stories of complaints of other retailers selling lower than the other. Even going as far as not allowing items from the US to be sold to Canada or certain retailers.
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I rarely post on other competitors paid for sections of CGN but I think this needs to be addressed. From time to time you may have some public confrontations between retailers (and distributors as well) but these are rare. Most retail customers would be surprised at the friendly and social interaction by email/PM and in person meetings at various trade functions (distributor shows and SHOT). I have even been to a few competitor private homes and have had others stay at my house. There is still a healthy rivalry amongst dealers as we are all competing for the same retail dollar. With a few rare exceptions I feel comfortable in sharing a drink, meal or honest conversation with most retail competitors as this is a small industry in Canada. I am saddened at some of the accusations towards Wanstall's and Canada Ammo with regard to the M10X importation issues from people not directly involved in the wholesale transactions. I am proud to be in our industry and wish my honest retail competitors good luck. Phil.
 
P of PDent said:
I rarely post on other competitors paid for sections of CGN but I think this needs to be addressed. From time to time you may have some public confrontations between retailers (and distributors as well) but these are rare. Most retail customers would be surprised at the friendly and social interaction by email/PM and in person meetings at various trade functions (distributor shows and SHOT). I have even been to a few competitor private homes and have had others stay at my house. There is still a healthy rivalry amongst dealers as we are all competing for the same retail dollar. With a few rare exceptions I feel comfortable in sharing a drink, meal or honest conversation with most retail competitors as this is a small industry in Canada. I am saddened at some of the accusations towards Wanstall's and Canada Ammo with regard to the M10X importation issues from people not directly involved in the wholesale transactions. I am proud to be in our industry and wish my honest retail competitors good luck. Phil.
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And that is exactly why your shop is always my first stop when I'm looking for firearms and reloading supplies.
I've joked with the girls on the till that you should give discounts based on how much we've spent at the store (since it's all tracked), I'd probably be getting one heck of a discount by now :)

:cheers:


Bartok5 said:
...and really sore losers, and just plain sh#t-disturbers.....
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I don't think anyone is being a sore loser, you just seem to be taking peoples comments personally, some may have become personal later on but it started out bashing M+M's business practices. You must be able to see why people are upset by what has happened so far.
No one is attacking the guys that got in on the pre-sale, people are just pissed off that what the price should have been based on conversion and import costs (the pre-sale price) looks like it is being jacked up by $500 because M+M wants to subsidize the US market. It seems the Americans have figured out these aren't worth the money and aren't buying them so M+M made a Canadian compliant version so they can rape us because we're desperate for a decent NR x39.
It's very frustrating that M+M said they would release the correct pricing by Friday and they're still sitting around with their thumb up their back door letting us wonder and make up our own conclusions. What they are doing is very unprofessional and makes you wonder what type of people you're potentially dealing with. If I was a business owner and a supplier told me they would deliver by a certain date and didn't I would be dealing with a new supplier not patiently waiting for them to deliver while my customers sit with empty hands.

I hope everyone that got in on the pre-sale is happy with their purchase once they actually have their rifles in hand. I also hope that M+M and the importers don't end up pricing themselves out of a market. If that happens and no one buys them after the pre-sale batch they will stop importing them which will mean no parts or warranty support for those that bought one.

I'd really like to know the whole story and how it really unfolded. Unfortunately only CA, M+M, and Wanstalls will ever know and I even doubt either of our Canadian retailers/importers know what was said to the other by M+M. Whatever happened, someone made a big mistake and the rifles success in Canada will probably suffer because of it.

Why can't Wanstalls contact M+M and demand an answer? M+M set the date and then let it pass, it was their own deadline. Real professional.
 
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Cr5, I never took any of the exchanges personally until you made it personal, for which you apologized. As far as I am concerned, that is the end of that. However, I would respectfully suggest that you take a look in the mirror and see if it hasn't become somewhat personal for you as well. How else to explain the ceaseless bashing of M+M industries?

What you perceive as "personal" on my part I see as nothing more than an effort to balance the outright bashing that I think has been completely unwarranted, based solely on hard feelings, conjecture and heresay. I would suggest that my comments only appear to be personal if viewed through an equally biased lense. I would further remind you that the bashing has not been confined to M+M, but has also extended to Wanstalls for ending their pre-sale early. As if they had a choice in the matter! Some people really need to give their heads a shake. Not you on that score, but certainly others posting trash-talk in the other theads.

At the end of the day you can interpret my posts however you like. I really don't care so long as I am able to continue providing a balanced counterpoint to the negativity and self-defeating back-biting that has been occurring non-stop since this entire fiasco began. I understand why you and others are frustrated. You have explained your position clearly. What I can't understand is why you persist in being a part of the pitchforks and torches gang. Without the facts which we will likely never have, it is all just conjecture mixed with hurt feelings to produce poisonous bile. Everyone has had plenty of opportunity to vent by now, so what's the point of continuing the guessing games? Why not just focus on the facts, which all have to do with a very promising new firearms design hitting the Canadian market? That alone ought to give us all plenty to talk about without having to dredge up all of the nausea and hard feelings.
 
Lol, The only people or company I have anything bad to say about is M+M, I'm hoping the discrepancy between CA and Wanstalls was just a miscommunication from the manufacturer to them. I have bought firearms and accessories from both companies and have always come away happy with my decision to deal with them.
I don't really understand how you can continue to defend M+M's actions though, their product if it ever gets sorted out should be a welcome addition to our marketplace but they could put all this to bed if they would just do what they said they would do and give a price to our retailers so they can set their retail price and let us know what's going on.
I never saw any of the bashing aimed at Wanstalls for closing the pre-sale early but instead it was anger towards M+M for forcing the closure due to wanting to subsidize the low US sales with inflated prices for us. I may have missed or forgot some posts which you reference but to me it's all been aimed at M+M for raising the price. The statement they released stating exactly why they wanted more money from us was a kick in the lower abdominal region and shows they have no respect for us. It actually would have been a lot better for them if they had lied and simply stated that a miscommunication led the retailer to release a sale price that can not be supported and that the cost would be whatever from here on in, the people on the pre-order were lucky to have taken advantage in a timely manner and that price would be honored for them. Saying they would give us a firm price then not doing it by the time they said they would and then remaining silent for days afterward is poor business practice no matter what industry you deal in and every day they wait I'm sure more and more people who are on the fence will lose interest and move on to other rifles like the Type-81 that is almost here.

Anyway, I just like to debate stuff, especially with someone like yourself who holds their ground and can remain calm and continue on without resorting to name calling or other childish antics.
Some day I'll convince you to come out to my place to shoot your M10x and also shoot whatever rifles I have in my collection that interest you and we'll have a couple beers to end the afternoon. :cheers:
 
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