Canadian made "black" rifle

OCCAM said:
I think that people would like to see both 5.56 and x39 based rounds in this "Homerrifle"

The problem is the AR bolt is weak when using X39 based cartridges, so if designing a new or updated rifle for use with x39 based rounds would be to either upsize the bolt head to the ar-10 size or design a 3 lug triangular bolt the correct size ALA Leader T2/M17s.

Re-enforced poly lower at a minimum, but i think most would prefer aluminum.

I have nothing against the 180b gas system but how hard would it be to add a gas key to the 180 bolt and be able to use AR Barrels, gas tubes and blocks?
Click to expand...
I much prefer the 180 gas system. Very simple and reliable.
 
Updated AR180 Sketch

Can someone provide an updated sketch of the AR 180 - C ( Canada ) with suggestions as noted. This would be a good step in visualizing our new Canadian - Black.
Also easier for everyone to critique with input.
Being approved this is a definite path forward.
J-Bear
PS Lets Getter Done
http://ar180s.com/
 
Last edited:
GSG1911 said:
Considering how ridiculous your ' What are you looking for ' thread went this should be fun to follow.

Short of ' I'm having a beer with Dlask tomorrow, I'll let you know how it goes ' then don't bother.

Times have changed to the point that they can have custom * not * 10/22 high cap mags made that are quality and affordable, then they can dust off the blueprints for that pump they had and get it NR'ed.

Otherwise the patents on the Mini 14 have long expired just like the 10/22. Worked fine in 5.56 and x39, just copy that in the Philippines or China.
Click to expand...

Clone the 14, and adapt it for AR mags!
 
I also have no application for a 5.56 NR "black rifle" under $1K. Most who do shoot at a range and run ARs, because they do this better and cheaper. Varmiters want something more accurate, hunters need a 7.62 rifle. The M305 in a plastic chassis sells because it works for under $1K, not because it's wonderful. The "fun gun" non-competitive, non-hunter, 5.56, N/R only, "black gun" market is small here. Make the gun for $800 all in, sell for $1K, move 1000 units= $200K. Working lots of OT most resource workers with a trade can hit that in 18months. Often 12 months, if they move of the big city.
 
Also, the only thing such a rifle could be expected to be good at is sending rounds down range reliably. Looking at recent attempts, even that is not assured.
 
CanAm
"I much prefer the 180 gas system. Very simple and reliable."

Was thinking to reduce how much has to be custom made... AR 180 gas system is 5 pieces. Probably not cheap to manufacture.
 
Jake1911 said:
Always wanted to know how hard it would be to turn the AK in an AR, instead of a piston use a telescoping tube to feed the carrier hot gas in conjunction with an AR bolt and barrel it could be pretty accurate.

Would have to redesign the carrier but it would be relatively simple and robust blending the best of both designs. The recoil spring could sit on the sides of the carrier like an ar180. Jam it all into a simple extruded aluminium upper and pin it to the top of an Ar180b lower reciever
Click to expand...

Exactly.
Just bare in mind it doesn't have to be accurate! Even rack grade AR15's are 2-3 MOA rifles at best with bulk/standard shelf ammo. That's plenty accurate enough for a semi auto black rifle.
When you start trying to make a cheap rifle "accurate" it ends up becoming expensive, not that accurate anyway and usually unreliable. I'd point out the obvious of the most recent one but there are sensitive ego's on this board....

There's already a dime bag of overpriced, over engineered black rifles in this country for people to measure their groups with calipers. They're good. I don't want precision. When I do want precision there's the good old Rem700 with match ammo and/or handloads.

Fack sake, we need to get over this fantasy of a semi auto, rack grade rifle design made in Canada that shoots 1/2 MOA and is going to cost around $1K. It's not going to happen. Who gives a s**t about precision accuracy in semi auto black rifle!? Precision shooters can buy precision guns. That's not what this is going to be. Rack grade AR15 accuracy is the goal here. That will keep it cheap, keep it reliable, keep materials/cost down, keep manufacturing simple (cost again).
If we were allowed to in this country, we'd all be out in the woods with our 20" AR15's shooting 2-3 MOA all day and noone would have a problem with that.
 
Travis Bickle said:
Fack sake, we need to get over this fantasy of a semi auto, rack grade rifle design made in Canada that shoots 1/2 MOA and is going to cost around $1K. It's not going to happen. Who gives a s**t about precision accuracy in semi auto black rifle!? Precision shooters can buy precision guns. That's not what this is going to be. Rack grade AR15 accuracy is the goal here. That will keep it cheap, keep it reliable, keep materials/cost down, keep manufacturing simple (cost again).
If we were allowed to in this country, we'd all be out in the woods with our 20" AR15's shooting 2-3 MOA all day and noone would have a problem with that.
Click to expand...

Well what is required for good accuracy? Good ammo, good barrel, tight lockup, tuned or controlled gas. Its not that hard.
 
870P said:
Somebody would done it already if it were that simple.

I'm fairly sure you'd need to buy the right to the Valmet name in order for it to be exempt from being prohibited.
Click to expand...

Actually that's not even the issue.

Valmet is a Finnish manufacturing company (or something like that) so they would have to be made in the Valmet factory to be a Valmet.
 
Last edited:
pcvando said:
Oooorrr.... you could convince Valmet to start making guns again, specifically the M78. ;)

3rgXBOmTlzyFCURutG.gif
Click to expand...

Or get a license to produce Valmet Hunter in Canada from them!!! :wave:
 
Upper receiver;

http://www.speedymetals.com/c-8379-...MI_5aAvLeU1wIVArbACh1eqgDAEAAYASAAEgIgAvD_BwE

Lower can be injected molded fiberglass plastic, throw on zukov stock.
If you guys dont feel like wasting time with extra parts I would recommend delayed blowback.

http://1.bp.########.com/-Kwi5ArzCa8k/UbLPzbu3EnI/AAAAAAAABpw/NkMOcLqTsMU/s1600/lever-delayed-action-animation.gif

or

http://1.bp.########.com/_59GYpEVAu0U/TG4iIdWHouI/AAAAAAAAAbo/xP3VIjMwAnk/s1600/roller2.jpg
 
I can't see a wholly domestically produced black rifle being viable at $1000, not unless said "rifle" was a blowback pistol caliber carbine, or there was an import ban that basically handed the market to domestic producers.

Even raising the target price by a few hundred dollars would be iffy IMO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom