What barrel lenght/profile would you use?

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MartyK2500

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I am planning my next build that will start early 2018 and surely get done for end of 2018.
The item requiring the most time to order sometimes, can be the barrel, so it's the first item on my list soon to get ordered.

Purpose of rifle is not clear yet (at least i am being honest!), as PRS doesn't have any events close to here so i do not see myself shooting it anytime soon, Fclass got a range close nearby if ever i wish to give it a try, my buddy has a 500M range on private property (but we can only go 3-4 times a year), and i regularly shoot (every 2 weeks) between 100-300M. Still on the lookout for that coveted 800-1000M private/crown land spot. Hunting is also out of the question, nothing wrong with hunting just not on my list of stuff to do.

Action will most likely be an ultimatum or Savage 10 if i salvage current rifle,
Stock will be a debate between a McMillan and another MDT ESS chassis like i currently own,
Scope will be vortex Razor gen ll i will just transfer from my savage 10TR-ESS setup.

I was tempted to go 6.5CM, but in light of all this information, and since i am already setup for 308 (headspace gauges and precision MIC, Quality dies, forster neck turner/3in1 trimmer, Dewey cleaning rod kit...), i do feel like 308 is the logical choice.
At least it's eligible Fclass FTR (i could trade scope for SFP if it comes to this) or PRS tactical if ever the need to compete arises.
So barrel is for a plinker, that might end up competing, i do enjoy sub 1/2 moa plinking though. Current bullets are 175 SMK.

With this information in mind, what would you chose and why?
So far i did research and am steering myself towards a choise : Shilen, 24'', 1:10 twist, 5R rifling, M24/M40 profile, brake thread size TBD as i have not reasearched the benifits of going larger than 5/8x24.
This thread is to open myself up to more options to research on.
 
I just had to make a similar decision. After deliberating it to death, I decided to stay with .308 for much the same reasons you’ve cited plus, I rarely get to shoot past 600 meters.

I wanted top accuracy and good velocity without turning an already heavy rifle into a boat anchor. I went with a Hardy 26” 1:10 heavy palma profile. Insite arms will be doing the work so I am confident it will be an absolute hammer. The new barrel will use an Insite heathen brake.
 
I guess it really depends on a lot of factors. If all you end up doing is re-barrelling your Savage, makes sense to stick to .308. If you're building on a new action (like the Ultimatum) you might as well go for something different (ie 6.5mm Creedmoor) instead of having 2 .308s. Other than the barrel, you'd need new headspace guages (I'm assuming you're getting a prefit), new dies, a new pilot for your neck turner and a new head for the 3in1 trimmer so definitely a few hundred bucks but not a crazy additional expense. The other stuff (brass, bullets, powder) are all consumables so I won't add that in. Basically what I'm getting at is why not go to the Creedmoor. When you do get the chance to stretch it out, you'll have better ballistics than your .308 and you can still shoot your Savage if you want to. Then again, if you planned on selling the Savage to fund your build, while, maybe stick to .308 then.

As to barrel length, profile and twist, I'm partial to 26" as you get to squeak some extra speed out of it and I don't find it too long for my uses (mainly PRS matches) in anything from a Med Palma to a M24/M40, kinda depending on how your rig balances. Currently I have a Med Palma on my .308 but getting a M24/M40 spun up for my 6mm Creed as currently I find my setup a bit butt heavy on barricades. They all work, it's mainly personal preference/splitting hairs.
 
That’s what i currently own on my savage 10TR, heathens .885’’ 5/8x24
Love it, that’s what i’ll get for 2nd build. Probably end up with gen 2 brake by then.
Only thing, which isn’t really an issue, had to red locktight it, would come loose every 200 rounds (shot 1100 so far in 2017).
Since locktighting it, stayed snug in place without moving.

Did you go 5/8x24 or 3/4x24 for muzzle threads?
 
I ran a Heathen on a stock Rem barrel and found I had to loctite it as well. I talked to the guys at Insite and they told me that's cause the shoulder of the factory threads often aren't perfectly square. I'll be using that brake on my 6mm (that they are spinning up). It's 5/8x24.
 
rugbydave said:
I guess it really depends on a lot of factors. If all you end up doing is re-barrelling your Savage, makes sense to stick to .308. If you're building on a new action (like the Ultimatum) you might as well go for something different (ie 6.5mm Creedmoor) instead of having 2 .308s. Other than the barrel, you'd need new headspace guages (I'm assuming you're getting a prefit), new dies, a new pilot for your neck turner and a new head for the 3in1 trimmer so definitely a few hundred bucks but not a crazy additional expense. The other stuff (brass, bullets, powder) are all consumables so I won't add that in. Basically what I'm getting at is why not go to the Creedmoor. When you do get the chance to stretch it out, you'll have better ballistics than your .308 and you can still shoot your Savage if you want to. Then again, if you planned on selling the Savage to fund your build, while, maybe stick to .308 then.

As to barrel length, profile and twist, I'm partial to 26" as you get to squeak some extra speed out of it and I don't find it too long for my uses (mainly PRS matches) in anything from a Med Palma to a M24/M40, kinda depending on how your rig balances. Currently I have a Med Palma on my .308 but getting a M24/M40 spun up for my 6mm Creed as currently I find my setup a bit butt heavy on barricades. They all work, it's mainly personal preference/splitting hairs.
Click to expand...

Savage will most likely get sold once ultimatum build is done.
If i go that route.
If not savage can be rebarelled to a match barrel.

6.5CM is a big debate in my head right now, and i am sure my 308 stuff would sell quick on EE to swap to 6.5CM stuff.
Since i don’t compete and do shoot 150 rounds a month in 0C+ weather, i did not break down cost per round in 6.5CM yet.
What kind of stock do you own that makes a medium palma feel rear heavy?
I do see 26’’ length to be the popular choice in PRS blogs

Edit : in 6.5CM, are we looking at 1:8 twist, 26’’ barrel, 5R rifling, M40 contour, 5/8x24 muzzle thread, to be the “optimal” barrel setup for target?
 
MartyK2500 said:
That’s what i currently own on my savage 10TR, heathens .885’’ 5/8x24
Love it, that’s what i’ll get for 2nd build. Probably end up with gen 2 brake by then.
Only thing, which isn’t really an issue, had to red locktight it, would come loose every 200 rounds (shot 1100 so far in 2017).
Since locktighting it, stayed snug in place without moving.

Did you go 5/8x24 or 3/4x24 for muzzle threads?
Click to expand...

My heathen is custom as it is on an Accuracy International with M18X1.5 threads. The new barrel is being threaded the same. Out of your two options I would think it shoul not matter either way, but I would talk to Insite to see what the differences are between the two.
 
J996 said:
My heathen is custom as it is on an Accuracy International with M18X1.5 threads. The new barrel is being threaded the same. Out of your two options I would think it shoul not matter either way, but I would talk to Insite to see what the differences are between the two.
Click to expand...


Yes i should.
Can’t find the thread, but someone here once said in another thread to go 3/4x24 all the way and if you don’t know why just google it.
And either my poor google skills or limited use of english language, didn’t get me any answers
 
I have a 26" MTU Krieger and boy is she front heavy. But she does balance nicely on barricades, and the length and weight doesn't really bother me on stages. Next time I'll go with a heavy palma for 26" or 24" for MTU.
 
308 Win is never a mistake.
Unless you intend to use 200gr+ VLD bullets then 12" twist in 308 Win will give you all with less spike pressures and more speed.
I would vote for 24" long barrel instead 26"+ with 3/4" dia at muzzle for more barrel stiffness.
If you have to use the brake then the biggest thread you can use is preferable, I as retired machinist can attest to the simple observation that any metal removed from outside of pipe makes the bore to enlarge....arrive to your own conclusion regarding the consequence of cutting to much material from muzzle.
 
I just built a Savage rifle for my buddy.

We went with a JC Customs barrel and did a stainless 24", 1-11" twist, straight taper to .930" at the muzzle with a 5/8-24 thread at the muzzle (I would have gone 3/4-24 or -10 for the thread but it wasn't my gun).
First day out it was shooting <.65moa with 168GMM, and last week was <.4moa at 200y with the same ammo.

This is the second JC barrel I've used in a build. The other was an AR10 that shoots <.65moa. I'm really impressed with his barrels.

But honestly, with the ranges you're likely to shoot at, just about any quality brand 24" prefit barrel in a medium-heavy contour is going to get you sub 3/4moa accuracy as long as you can do your part :) So buy the contour you think sounds the coolest ;)
 
*MALICE* said:
I just built a Savage rifle for my buddy.

We went with a JC Customs barrel and did a stainless 24", 1-11" twist, straight taper to .930" at the muzzle with a 5/8-24 thread at the muzzle (I would have gone 3/4-24 or -10 for the thread but it wasn't my gun).
First day out it was shooting <.65moa with 168GMM, and last week was <.4moa at 200y with the same ammo.

This is the second JC barrel I've used in a build. The other was an AR10 that shoots <.65moa. I'm really impressed with his barrels.

But honestly, with the ranges you're likely to shoot at, just about any quality brand 24" prefit barrel in a medium-heavy contour is going to get you sub 3/4moa accuracy as long as you can do your part :) So buy the contour you think sounds the coolest ;)
Click to expand...

I am already sub 3/4 moa accuracy, constantly without exception.
Factory barrelled action, Savage 10TR. 24”, 5R, 1:10, 0.800” dia at muzzle
Once you obtain this i got to find my next challenge, as simply repeating the same gets boring.
Sure when it winds and we’re at the 500M range, i can get blown off my 10” plate quite easy, so there will be wind reading lessons in 2018.
My next build gotta be sub 1/2 moa constant (i may be the weak link as it is right now and don’t realise it yet), do it all setup.
Will look into JC barrels.

Tomochan, do you have experience competing with that profile/lenght/twist?
 
Alpheus said:
I have a 26" MTU Krieger and boy is she front heavy. But she does balance nicely on barricades, and the length and weight doesn't really bother me on stages. Next time I'll go with a heavy palma for 26" or 24" for MTU.
Click to expand...

MTU is quite the beefed up barrel. Possibly close to a pound heavier than M40 profile.
Don’t know how much more it’s needed.
I guess the fatter it is the stiffer it is, when stiff reduces barrel whip, which then does ???? (I’ll google it to see actual effects of barre whip)
 
MartyK2500 said:
For a long range hunter or some type of competition.
I don’t plan to pay much more than 600-700$ for a barrel, if that’s even realistic in match grade
Click to expand...

Fair enough, they are just so light, and bleed heat quickly. I love the one on my modern Hunter. Maybe a little over that budget though! Lol.
 
MartyK2500 said:
Savage will most likely get sold once ultimatum build is done.
If i go that route.
If not savage can be rebarelled to a match barrel.

6.5CM is a big debate in my head right now, and i am sure my 308 stuff would sell quick on EE to swap to 6.5CM stuff.
Since i don’t compete and do shoot 150 rounds a month in 0C+ weather, i did not break down cost per round in 6.5CM yet.
What kind of stock do you own that makes a medium palma feel rear heavy?
I do see 26’’ length to be the popular choice in PRS blogs

Edit : in 6.5CM, are we looking at 1:8 twist, 26’’ barrel, 5R rifling, M40 contour, 5/8x24 muzzle thread, to be the “optimal” barrel setup for target?
Click to expand...

If it's economically feasible, I'd suggest keeping the Savage (in .308) and rebarrelling at some point and doing the new setup in 6.5 Creed. Then you have the flexibility to pick and choose what to shoot which day. With similar triggers and the same chassis/stock, your muscle memory won't know the difference. At the rate you shoot, it would most likely take you 2 years to shoot out the 6.5 and the cost per round when reloading is the same with regards to 6.5 Creed to .308.

I run a MDT ESS and on barricades it balances perfectly at the mag well when not using a bag. When I use a gamechanger, it pushes things far enough back that it then becomes butt heavy. That's why I'm moving to the M24/M40 profile. I like a 26" length as it's not so long as to be unwieldy but long enough to make it easier to hit your target velocity without running a hot load (in my case 2750fps for a 175 in .308 and 3100 for a 110 in 6mm Creed, hopefully). If you don't plan to hike around much with your rifle and you aren't shooting off barricades much, anything between a med palma and a mtu will work, honestly. If you want this to be a "do it all" kinda precision rig, I'd actually err towards the med palma as it's nicer to shoot unsupported (offhand, kneeling, seated) than the heavier contours but still plenty thick and stiff for a 10+ round string of fire.

As for the muzzle thread diameter, my new barrel is getting done in 5/8x24 simply because I have a Heathen in that size, my med palma barrel is threaded 3/4x24 and has a Kahntrol brake on it. It makes sense to get the larger diameter threads donw on a thicker barrel but I also don't think it makes any real appreciable difference but that's just me, haha.
 
MartyK2500 said:
I am planning my next build that will start early 2018 and surely get done for end of 2018.
The item requiring the most time to order sometimes, can be the barrel, so it's the first item on my list soon to get ordered.

Purpose of rifle is not clear yet (at least i am being honest!), as PRS doesn't have any events close to here so i do not see myself shooting it anytime soon, Fclass got a range close nearby if ever i wish to give it a try, my buddy has a 500M range on private property (but we can only go 3-4 times a year), and i regularly shoot (every 2 weeks) between 100-300M. Still on the lookout for that coveted 800-1000M private/crown land spot. Hunting is also out of the question, nothing wrong with hunting just not on my list of stuff to do.

Action will most likely be an ultimatum or Savage 10 if i salvage current rifle,
Stock will be a debate between a McMillan and another MDT ESS chassis like i currently own,
Scope will be vortex Razor gen ll i will just transfer from my savage 10TR-ESS setup.

I was tempted to go 6.5CM, but in light of all this information, and since i am already setup for 308 (headspace gauges and precision MIC, Quality dies, forster neck turner/3in1 trimmer, Dewey cleaning rod kit...), i do feel like 308 is the logical choice.
At least it's eligible Fclass FTR (i could trade scope for SFP if it comes to this) or PRS tactical if ever the need to compete arises.
So barrel is for a plinker, that might end up competing, i do enjoy sub 1/2 moa plinking though. Current bullets are 175 SMK.

With this information in mind, what would you chose and why?
So far i did research and am steering myself towards a choise : Shilen, 24'', 1:10 twist, 5R rifling, M24/M40 profile, brake thread size TBD as i have not reasearched the benifits of going larger than 5/8x24.
This thread is to open myself up to more options to research on.
Click to expand...

Here are a few thoughts... If you have an older gen action and want a light trigger pull, that can be done.

Actions with no cocking indicator can be adjusted to work much smoother, lighter and easier in the bolt lift and cycling. There isn't a big reason to change out the Savage action and will free up alot of money for ... BARRELS

6BR.. .single feed or mod mags. Low cost, long barrel life, easy recoil so you really don't need a muzzle brake... very accurate and for mid distance shooting, going to be hard to beat.

6.5CM... mag fed, all around lovely chambering. up to 2000rds of bore life. So easy to set up nowadays and it just plain shoots. Great for PRS. Not bad for F open but at a disadvantage for 900m and/or in heavy winds vs the 7mms

308Win... 30" hot rodded FTR set up. It doesn't give up much to the 6.5 CM with a shorter barrel at 1000yds wrt to wind drift and accuracy. Ideally, single feed but mag fed options are possible.

For the cost of an action, why not just invest in 2 match barrels? Now you can have your cake and eat it....

Me... I would tune up the Savage if possible.. new gen stuff is meh....6BR single shot for your short range stuff.

If F class is a reality, 30" 308 and we can set up for the best bullet option. Yes, you can use the ESS stock as long as you watch weight of the scope and bipod.

Or, you can go into F Open 284 win, 30" barrel, put on as much weight as you can... go have fun at 1000yds. I would continue to run a quality bipod.

I think the Ultimatum action has alot of great features but by the time you convert action, there is a major investment in $$$. If you have the budget, go for it... if not, why not just add the important bits that let you do more shooting?

I have enjoyed the Savage and Stevens actions... and bucket of barrels.

YMMV...

Jerry
 
Rugby dave
Running 2 setups might be possible.
My razor gen ll is in a spuhr unimount, would this make any sense running 2 rifles with one scope?
Being fully aware i would need a range visit before using a rifle in an event to rezero.

My ess is also perfectly balanced at barricade stop, i can see how strapping a pillow to the buttstock would unbalance it, making heavier barrels nice, if PRS or simply having fun with positional shooting was considered.


Jerry, i have an accutrigger action with new savage logo.
I love the trigger (although many people find it heavy), it is set to exactly 2 1/4lbs. Same as all my previous/current IPSC 1911s/2011s, same as my 10/22s, same as anything i got really. Every firearm i own are set to 2 1/4lbs.

I get what you are saying, let’s say i find another savage 10TR like i got, thats well used in the thousand rounds, action bolt are still good so it can become an inexpensive donor rifle.
For the price of an ultimatum action alone, i would have the savage action, 20 moa rail, match barrel, brake, and possibly a few $$$ towards a new stock.

I still enjoy doing builds and wouldn’t stop me from putting rounds down in my 10TR in the meantime, in the situation that i am limited to 500M (furthest i have shot this past year), would a 6.5 really have something over 308? Are they easier to tune loads for?
 
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