The WORST Military Handgun Cartridge of the 20th Century?

[gewehr76]

7.62x38R nagant cartridge was designed to be able to stop a galloping horse, so Some surplus ammo on youtube channels clocked at 1100fps. So it is not any where near the worst revolver cartridge of 20th century.

 

[bearhunter]

A good friend of mine in Hungary but was born in Vienna, Austria. He along with his brother were in the Hitler Youth. Their father was sent to the Russian Front where he disappeared. He suddenly reappeared, much to the embarrassment of his wife and replacement, without notice in 1953 after spending 8 years in a Soviet work camp. The Soviets in a bout of generosity had sentenced him to 10 years in a Gulag after his capture but allowed him to leave two years early because he had been the Camp Commander's Chess instructor and adviser. The Commander was posted out and decided to end his friend's torture.

All of them, including some of the higher ranking/older Hitler youth were issued with 7.65 semi auto pistols. The father as mentioned had been SS and the boys getting ready to be put into the Army. They fought the Russians tooth and nail to the bitter end. They were expected to use the pistols to take out Soviet soldiers close up or commit suicide instead of being captured.

I met all three of them in Vienna in 1977 and was shown some very interesting sights. They all joked about the 7.65 pistols and referred to them as "StichenPistoles" because they wouldn't penetrate a greatcoat or heavy leather coat more than 5 meters away. They did say it hurt like hell though.

The Finns had a similar issue with their 7.65 Luger. The bullets wouldn't penetrate Russian greatcoats that had ice on them. Not so for the 7.62x25 which was considered to be an excellent cartridge on all fronts and in all firearms it was chambered in.

 

[The Kurgan]

I can tell you that while factory Swiss 7.5 is pretty anemic and on par with 32 S&W Long, it can be handload to pretty impressive results. My average handloads clock a 100 grain hard cast wadcutter at 965-1050 fps with no over pressure signs. I certanly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that. I also have old Colt Police Positive ammo (32 S&W Long) that is rated at 148 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle (4 inch barrel) and Buffalo Bore and S&B make even stouter stuff.

I guess what I am saying is that if you can send a 100 grain projectile near or north of 1000 fps, with good sectional density, including 7.62 Nagant ammo, you have a winner in my books.

 

[Ganderite]

OK. So the 25ACP (6.35) was issued. Learn ever day here.

I have some pistols in that caliber. Seldom shoot them, since I don't (and won't) reload that caliber.

One (Baby Browning) came for a Commissioner of the RCMP. Apparently his wife carried it. It came in what looked like a little leather change purse. If you were to peek into a ladies purse and saw it, you would assume, from the top, it was a change purse.

 

[Sharps '74]

A cop whose wife was packing a gun? Encroyable! Whatever would the Queen think?

 

[purple]

I wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of any military handgun round at 25 yds even if I was wearing an ice encrusted greatcoat.

The .30 Carbine round is often maligned as a wussy, underpowered military ctg, which was unable to penetrate puffy Chinese winter jackets and the like, yet there are hundreds of thousands of graves full of proof that it could kill quite effectively.

 

[Horilka]

I am told that the 7.62x25 was introduced as a round to penetrate winter clothing because the Nagant revolver round did poorly.

It was not introduced that way. Soviet 7.62x25 was just a variant of Mauser 7.63. Changes were to facilitate easier extraction for more crude Soviet firearms and unification of the primer size. In some early Soviet manuals 7.62x25 is still called "Mauser 7.62 ammo".
Moreover, standard powder charge of 7.62x25 is less than some original loads of Mauser 7.63, so you can't say round is hotter.

 

[Ganderite]

A cop whose wife was packing a gun? Encroyable! Whatever would the Queen think?

This was a few years (decades) ago. Times were different. I was attending a fancy function at the Chateau Laurier in Ottawa, and a gentleman dropped something in my pocket and said "You owe me $100". It was the Browning.

I should post a picture of the little purse. I have never seen another like it.

 

[AP]

I wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of any military handgun round at 25 yds even if I was wearing an ice encrusted greatcoat.

I think that is very wise. As we all know, the OSS issued a High Standard .22lr silenced pistol. It wasnt for target practice. And then there is the Soviet SV-99.

 

[AP]

This was a few years (decades) ago. Times were different. I was attending a fancy function at the Chateau Laurier in Ottawa, and a gentleman dropped something in my pocket and said "You owe me $100". It was the Browning.

I should post a picture of the little purse. I have never seen another like it.

I hope you paid promptly....compounding interest on a $100 adds up quickly!!!
Browning used to offer small leather pistol 'cases' sized to each of their handguns. Could the purse be one of these?

 

[sail32]

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

http://shootingthebull.net/blog/an-alternative-look-at-an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power/

http://csi-forensicfollies.########.ca/2013/07/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping.html

 

[Ganderite]

I hope you paid promptly....compounding interest on a $100 adds up quickly!!!
Browning used to offer small leather pistol 'cases' sized to each of their handguns. Could the purse be one of these?

I found the pistol and its "purse". It is a Colt.

 

[diopter]

Looks like a Colt 1908 Vest pocket pistol.

 

[Ganderite]

Looks like a Colt 1908 Vest pocket pistol.

Yes, vintage about 1913. Nice blue finish, grip safety and no mag disconnect.

 

[AP]

Thats terrific! Never seen anything like it. A 'Lady Colt'. Very elegant!

 

[Sharps '74]

Perfect anti-rape deterrent device.