Different lots

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silver 55

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How much difference is there between lots?

Last year for christmas I bought myself an expensive rifle in 22 lr. I was seduced by the target that came with it. It was 5 shots at 50 yards and the five shots were in the teens if not the zeros. So I bought the rifle as well as a number of different boxes of ammo, one of which was the one used on the test target. Best I can do is groups in the half inch range.

Now I realize I am not as good a shooter as the factory guy is, but I can hold my own. My 6-18 Leupold is not the same as his factory 36 Leupold. The odds are very good that I did not get the same lot number of ammunition as the factory has.

The question in my mind is will the different lot number make all of the accuracy difference or do I have to keep looking?
 
Different lots of ammo can perform quite differently in a rifle.

Some test targets are very good and are hard to equal or to beat; others are bested without great difficulty. If you have an Anschutz rifle, your test target was obtained with the barreled action in a vise, with the ammo being RWS 50, or in the past perhaps Eley Tenex, or Lapua Midas. Other rifles, such as CZ, have a test target that reflects function more than accuracy. I'm going to guess you have an Anschutz.

To achieve the best possible accuracy from your rifle, you must not only have suitable ammunition and calm conditions. You need to have a good bench, good optics, a good front rest and rear bag, and above all good shooting technique. Perhaps you can describe what you are using, including ammo.

But first of all, before anyone can really address your question, perhaps you could describe the accuracy you are getting so as to establish a baseline from which to begin.
 
Different lot numbers of what is supposedly the same ammunition can alter accuracy drastically. If you find a lot number that performs well in your rifle, you should, if possible, purchase as many boxes as you can afford. Just part of the fun of 22 shooting.
 
grauhanen said:
Different lots of ammo can perform quite differently in a rifle.

Some test targets are very good and are hard to equal or to beat; others are bested without great difficulty. If you have an Anschutz rifle, your test target was obtained with the barreled action in a vise, with the ammo being RWS 50, or in the past perhaps Eley Tenex, or Lapua Midas. Other rifles, such as CZ, have a test target that reflects function more than accuracy. I'm going to guess you have an Anschutz.

To achieve the best possible accuracy from your rifle, you must not only have suitable ammunition and calm conditions. You need to have a good bench, good optics, a good front rest and rear bag, and above all good shooting technique. Perhaps you can describe what you are using, including ammo.

But first of all, before anyone can really address your question, perhaps you could describe the accuracy you are getting so as to establish a baseline from which to begin.
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The rifle is a Cooper. The factory target was shot with Lapua Midas+ and my groups are from 1/4" to 1/2". Not near as good as the factory target.

So far I have tried about a dozen different brands with some surprising results. American Eagle has given me some rather good groups.

I shoot center fire from the same set up and a couple of rifles have given me groups in the teens.
 
silver 55 said:
The rifle is a Cooper...... and my groups are from 1/4" to 1/2".
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Your rifle shoots the way a well made rifle is expected to, this is good performance for a rimfire. Have you never shot a group in the 0.1's with it? If you're thinking it should be able to pound out group after group in the 0.1's just because that's what a test target shows for a single group, you're bound to be disappointed. That kind of accuracy is the domain of full custom built, benchrest specific rifles fitted with tuners, and even at that they must be fed the very best lots of ammo. If you want better than you're currently getting, you'll have to dive down the custom rifle rabbit hole and be prepared to spend big $$
 
What Rabid says is very sound.

Is it a Cooper with a sporter style stock, or does it have a BR style stock? The latter is much more responsive to getting the smallest groups from the bench.
 
silver 55 said:
The rifle is a Cooper. The factory target was shot with Lapua Midas+ and my groups are from 1/4" to 1/2". Not near as good as the factory target.
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What range was the factory target shot? Does it say?

I seem to recall some discussions to the effect that the test range they use at Cooper isn't very long.

Pretty easy to get stunning accuracy at 20 feet! More to it out at 100 yards.
 
DIGAF said:
Different lot numbers of what is supposedly the same ammunition can alter accuracy drastically. If you find a lot number that performs well in your rifle, you should, if possible, purchase as many boxes as you can afford. Just part of the fun of 22 shooting.
Click to expand...

I think you have a good point. If I do find a good match, I have been planning on stocking up.
 
trevj said:
What range was the factory target shot? Does it say?

I seem to recall some discussions to the effect that the test range they use at Cooper isn't very long.

Pretty easy to get stunning accuracy at 20 feet! More to it out at 100 yards.
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Cooper shoots their targets at 50 yards, and that is where I have been shooting from.
 
I have been shooting from a stand up bench, some of my rifles are kickers, the stand up bench makes it easier to take the recoil, I have gotten used to it so I just do all my shooting from there. I use a Caldwell rest on the front and a rag on the back.

At 50 yards my groups have been in the 1/4 to 1/2" range, nothing like the .1 group on the factory test target. If I had even one group that was close to the test target I would feel better. I would know that I was on the right track and the reason I wasn't doing it consistantly was me.

I miss-identified the scope in an earlier post, It is a 3200 Bushnell 5-15. I will recheck the focus and the parralax and if the groups don't improve, swap it for another one from the shelf.

I have made notes on my phone of certain brands and lot numbers and if I am on the road and see a local gun shop and they have something different, I will pick up a few boxes and try them.
 
Buy boxes of ammo from Hirsch, Nordic or Target Shooting Products . . . they will break out boxes from lots where they have sufficient ammo to supply cases of that lot.
You have to be quick. Don't expect them to hold a case for you much past two weeks.
The testing process should start with a clean bore, and now fire five ten round groups with each lot. Keep records that can be assessed later.
Use the same target, one that will accept five separate groups and always fire your first group from a clean cold bore to the same target position.
After the first lot, clean and start over using the same procedure.
Wind flags if outdoors but an indoor facility if one is available.
Talk to your supplier. There is no sense in making an anonymous purchase and two months later learning there is none of that lot left.
Consistency in your testing will produce in competition even if you are only competing against yourself.
 
silver 55 said:
At 50 yards my groups have been in the 1/4 to 1/2" range, nothing like the .1 group on the factory test target. If I had even one group that was close to the test target I would feel better. I would know that I was on the right track and the reason I wasn't doing it consistantly was me.

I miss-identified the scope in an earlier post, It is a 3200 Bushnell 5-15. I will recheck the focus and the parralax and if the groups don't improve, swap it for another one from the shelf.
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What ammo is giving you the best results so far? Surely it is not HV American Eagle.

A scope such as the one used doesn't have the magnification that shooters who regularly shoot the smallest groups use -- except for a few anomalies on the 1/2" challenge in this forum.

It is simply very difficult to shoot consistent small groups with a relatively low powered scope. BR shooters use 36X and more magnification.

Here's what a USBR target 50 yards away looks like at 16X



At 24X



At 36X

 
horseman2 said:
Buy boxes of ammo from Hirsch, Nordic or Target Shooting Products . . . they will break out boxes from lots where they have sufficient ammo to supply cases of that lot.
You have to be quick. Don't expect them to hold a case for you much past two weeks.
The testing process should start with a clean bore, and now fire five ten round groups with each lot. Keep records that can be assessed later.
Use the same target, one that will accept five separate groups and always fire your first group from a clean cold bore to the same target position.
After the first lot, clean and start over using the same procedure.
Wind flags if outdoors but an indoor facility if one is available.
Talk to your supplier. There is no sense in making an anonymous purchase and two months later learning there is none of that lot left.
Consistency in your testing will produce in competition even if you are only competing against yourself.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. It hadn't crossed my mind that I could phone in a mail order to a major supplier. I've just been doing walkin traffic for my local gun shop.

I use single wall cardboard for a target, about 8 1/2 x 11, which means I can get 15 or 20 groups on one target. I have been shooting a bit but nothing organized. I am going to go through the ammo on my shelf and be able to compare one to another. If I get a good afternoon I should have most of it sorted out as to what is garbage and what may need another visit.
 
Just a thought but are you shooting on an outdoor range? I've had amazing results on a warm/dry/NO wind day. Then, a week or 2 later my groups opened up almost 2x. When I was looking at the targets (100 yds) I realized there was a small breeze dropping down the hill and across the range. The groups had a lot more horizontal dispersion than vertical and yes the group was blown across from the wind direction. If you happen to have a wind (even a small breeze) coming from 11 oclock, then switching to 1 oclock, you're in for some nasty results. Just a thought.
 
big boar said:
Just a thought but are you shooting on an outdoor range? I've had amazing results on a warm/dry/NO wind day. Then, a week or 2 later my groups opened up almost 2x. When I was looking at the targets (100 yds) I realized there was a small breeze dropping down the hill and across the range. The groups had a lot more horizontal dispersion than vertical and yes the group was blown across from the wind direction. If you happen to have a wind (even a small breeze) coming from 11 oclock, then switching to 1 oclock, you're in for some nasty results. Just a thought.
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grauhanen said:
What ammo is giving you the best results so far? Surely it is not HV American Eagle.

A scope such as the one used doesn't have the magnification that shooters who regularly shoot the smallest groups use -- except for a few anomalies on the 1/2" challenge in this forum.

It is simply very difficult to shoot consistent small groups with a relatively low powered scope. BR shooters use 36X and more magnification.

Here's what a USBR target 50 yards away looks like at 16X...
Click to expand...

I think you two have probably nailed it. If the OP is using a 15x scope, while the guy at the factory used a 36x scope or better, then group sizes that are half the size are not out of the realm of possibility. Add to that, the fact that I bet the Cooper range is indoors, and the OPs probably isn't, and you've got an pretty reasonable answer to the question IMO.
 
Suther said:
I think you two have probably nailed it. If the OP is using a 15x scope, while the guy at the factory used a 36x scope or better, then group sizes that are half the size are not out of the realm of possibility. Add to that, the fact that I bet the Cooper range is indoors, and the OPs probably isn't, and you've got an pretty reasonable answer to the question IMO.
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Doubt it. While more scope zoom certainly assists, I've shot more than a handful of groups in the 0.1's with 18x and recently on a friend's rifle with a 14x. Outdoors too. Surely the OP has been out on a calm wind day at some point. Not the root issue IMO, and super zoom scopes don't make the rifle itself any more accurate. If the OP hasn't shot any 0.1's yet, the problem is not with these items.

silver 55 said:
I use a Caldwell rest on the front and a rag on the back.
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He is using a rag for rear support on a sporter styled stock, and shooting standing (standing bench). I see this setup easily rockin' and rollin', opening up those groups. OP, please get yourself a proper rear bag to support the butt of the riflestock, this is the first thing that is most likely to give you an overall improvement.

Given a typical group self reported in the 1/4" to 1/2" range, and no success shooting any 0.1's, I believe the issue at play is mainly setup and shooting technique. That said, it is still unrealistic to expect the rifle to shoot all groups under 1/4". You're doing about as good as can be expected if you see one, two or a few 0.1's shot in a range session, mostly 0.2's and 0.3's, plus the odd 0.4" here and there.
 
RabidM4U5 said:
Doubt it. While more scope zoom certainly assists, I've shot more than a handful of groups in the 0.1's with 18x and recently on a friend's rifle with a 14x. Outdoors too. Surely the OP has been out on a calm wind day at some point. Not the root issue IMO, and super zoom scopes don't make the rifle itself any more accurate. If the OP hasn't shot any 0.1's yet, the problem is not with these items.
Click to expand...

The preponderance of BR shooters using scopes with magnification considerably more than 15X or even 18X bears witness to their desirability and efficacy, notwithstanding the more than a handful great groups obtained referred to above. To be sure, a scope with more magnification will not make a rifle shoot better, but it will allow the shooter to see the target more fully.

At the same time, the front rest and rear bag is unmistakably important, but perhaps it's not a great concern to the OP as he says he shoots in the teens with CF from such a set up. Of course .22LR can be less forgiving than most center fire rounds when it comes to shooting for accuracy.

I would suggest that the OP get a more suitable scope and rest and rear bag if he wishes to shoot to the best of his and his rifle's potential. But not only that, perhaps much better ammo can be used. Most LGS's don't carry a wide selection of match .22LR ammo, without which attempting to obtain the best accuracy can be an overwhelming challenge.

OP, what ammo has given you the best results so far?
 
Lot numbers do make a difference, sometimes a dramatic difference!!
When I found a certain lot # of ELEY Black Box EPS that shot lights out in not one, but two of
my match 22's, I bought 2 cases of it. Hasn't let me down yet.
I have some Tenex and some R50 here that cannot touch this stuff for accuracy in my 40X
and my SUHL 150 BR. EE
U98onPt.jpg
 
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