Oh? Care to explain? Does it kill any slower than, say, a 150gr tsx? Or are you commenting on the tsx in general?
30-06s.... Love/Hate/Re-evaluate
- Thread starter WhelanLad
- Start date
Oh? Care to explain? Does it kill any slower than, say, a 150gr tsx? Or are you commenting on the tsx in general?
In the local milshoots which I've been dragging my ass getting to since having kids, I use a Winchester 1917.
Something about a German designed action, with British designed rifling, shooting an American designed cartridge makes me feel very Canadian.
Something about a German designed action, with British designed rifling, shooting an American designed cartridge makes me feel very Canadian.
OK, gotta ask this. Is C.E. Harris the same guy as Ed Harris? I don't think so.
A few things have come along in todays world that has helped push the 30/06 and many other cartrages further.
BDC retrical optics, rifle powders, new bullet construction, availability of high quality custom barrels, and the world of precision match grade stocks for all user applications.
BDC retrical optics -
Distance range mill-dot or sight line optic scopes really benefit the heavy weight bullets used in the 30/06, these optics allow a hunter to get those bullets down range and on target.
Most systems allow from MZ to 500 and 600 meters with spot on accuracy.
I've been shooting Hornady ELD-X 178gr bullets for this year, I see the 212's filling that gap as I'll explain once I share on the list.
Other good bullet selections for the 30/06 are the 150 & 165/168gr bullets.
The 150's with support of the BDC optics allows for distances beyond the 600m mark.
More on this as well.
Rifle Powders -
Hodgen, IMR, Winchester, and Reloader (RL) have been good to us Ought-6 Folks, the stability of these powders have helped all calibers of rifles.
RL-22 rocks the heavy weight 190gr 30/06 bullets.
This powder all by its self has been able to push these bullets into the 3000 ft-per seconds category with 27" barrels, 2980's in the 26" contours.
I don't see my self at this point in time to see what other powders do for the 150's to 168's, but I'm guessing both of them would be going pretty fast with different powders.
Others will chime in on this I'm sure.
Bullet Construction -
Today's new bullets rock this planet.
They can take the fast lunch of magnum proportion, yet offer down range expansion at less speed then bullets of yesterday.
Most manufacturers now post data of ft-per seconds of the lowest values that a particular bullet will still perform
Of course there are variables to the rule, to many factors to address, but each person can research the info they need.
Bullet manufactors will alway try new ideas in the years to come. The tip, core, and jacket is what makes energy transfer possible. I never thought in my life time I would see a 600 BC + 30 Caliber bullet in my day. Boy was I wrong as the manufacturers keep pushing them in the attempt to reach the 700 BC mark.
High Quality After market barrels -
Now this is a area worth looking at.
Who would of ever thought a un-lapped forward choked down 30/06 barrel could produces excellent accuracy, more constant powder burn rate, and faster ft-per seconds out of the muzzle.
I'm soon to see how this works with a 32" Bull barrel chambered in 308 this year.
A good barrel builder is able to profile this long before the build.
The USSR Sargent Don artical above was just such a challange 25 years ago,,, advancement have come along ways since then.
100 years ago was like the IPhone 1.0,,, today's barrels are like 47.8 or 82.3 improved.
Not only is the old school 30/06 reaping this reward, all cartrages "can and are."
Many many factors in a barrel can show some promising results,,, add to that the AI or Sherman idea.
Now the boring 30/06 becomes an incredible Wildcat.
I'm blessed since I surround by 7 custom barrel manufactors with in my 100 mile circle,,, 2 of them rank in the top 10 in North America. These guys rock.
The world of custom stocks -
What can I say. If one chooses to push the limits of a bland and boring 30/06,,, purhaps it might be wize to choose a quality stock.
Let's call it the spine of performance.
I'm doing 2 stocks this year.
They are at both ends of the scale.
Stock 1 is a MCR custom laminated extra long long long stock for FTR. A stock like this is for National match shooting, would I take this rifle hunting, absolutely I would.
I think it would be pretty easy to harvest squirrels at 300 meters. LOL.
Stock 2 is Stewart's Wildcat Composites carbon fiber Ver-Tech stock.
This stock is for plinking, critter harvests, iron silhouettes, and PRS challange if I have time to fit this in.
If someone asked 35 years ago if I would ever do a custom rifle I would of said no way man.
He I am today 35 years later and took on 1 FTR shoot, followed up by a full season of 600 to 1k shooting challanges and 1 1700m shot off in Southern BC.
I can't believe I waited this long before entering the custom rifle world.
My advise I share with everyone I meet that has never shot a precision built custom rifle is:
Don't do it, it's been know to damage the thickness of your wallet. LOL.
Don
BDC retrical optics, rifle powders, new bullet construction, availability of high quality custom barrels, and the world of precision match grade stocks for all user applications.
BDC retrical optics -
Distance range mill-dot or sight line optic scopes really benefit the heavy weight bullets used in the 30/06, these optics allow a hunter to get those bullets down range and on target.
Most systems allow from MZ to 500 and 600 meters with spot on accuracy.
I've been shooting Hornady ELD-X 178gr bullets for this year, I see the 212's filling that gap as I'll explain once I share on the list.
Other good bullet selections for the 30/06 are the 150 & 165/168gr bullets.
The 150's with support of the BDC optics allows for distances beyond the 600m mark.
More on this as well.
Rifle Powders -
Hodgen, IMR, Winchester, and Reloader (RL) have been good to us Ought-6 Folks, the stability of these powders have helped all calibers of rifles.
RL-22 rocks the heavy weight 190gr 30/06 bullets.
This powder all by its self has been able to push these bullets into the 3000 ft-per seconds category with 27" barrels, 2980's in the 26" contours.
I don't see my self at this point in time to see what other powders do for the 150's to 168's, but I'm guessing both of them would be going pretty fast with different powders.
Others will chime in on this I'm sure.
Bullet Construction -
Today's new bullets rock this planet.
They can take the fast lunch of magnum proportion, yet offer down range expansion at less speed then bullets of yesterday.
Most manufacturers now post data of ft-per seconds of the lowest values that a particular bullet will still perform
Of course there are variables to the rule, to many factors to address, but each person can research the info they need.
Bullet manufactors will alway try new ideas in the years to come. The tip, core, and jacket is what makes energy transfer possible. I never thought in my life time I would see a 600 BC + 30 Caliber bullet in my day. Boy was I wrong as the manufacturers keep pushing them in the attempt to reach the 700 BC mark.
High Quality After market barrels -
Now this is a area worth looking at.
Who would of ever thought a un-lapped forward choked down 30/06 barrel could produces excellent accuracy, more constant powder burn rate, and faster ft-per seconds out of the muzzle.
I'm soon to see how this works with a 32" Bull barrel chambered in 308 this year.
A good barrel builder is able to profile this long before the build.
The USSR Sargent Don artical above was just such a challange 25 years ago,,, advancement have come along ways since then.
100 years ago was like the IPhone 1.0,,, today's barrels are like 47.8 or 82.3 improved.
Not only is the old school 30/06 reaping this reward, all cartrages "can and are."
Many many factors in a barrel can show some promising results,,, add to that the AI or Sherman idea.
Now the boring 30/06 becomes an incredible Wildcat.
I'm blessed since I surround by 7 custom barrel manufactors with in my 100 mile circle,,, 2 of them rank in the top 10 in North America. These guys rock.
The world of custom stocks -
What can I say. If one chooses to push the limits of a bland and boring 30/06,,, purhaps it might be wize to choose a quality stock.
Let's call it the spine of performance.
I'm doing 2 stocks this year.
They are at both ends of the scale.
Stock 1 is a MCR custom laminated extra long long long stock for FTR. A stock like this is for National match shooting, would I take this rifle hunting, absolutely I would.
I think it would be pretty easy to harvest squirrels at 300 meters. LOL.
Stock 2 is Stewart's Wildcat Composites carbon fiber Ver-Tech stock.
This stock is for plinking, critter harvests, iron silhouettes, and PRS challange if I have time to fit this in.
If someone asked 35 years ago if I would ever do a custom rifle I would of said no way man.
He I am today 35 years later and took on 1 FTR shoot, followed up by a full season of 600 to 1k shooting challanges and 1 1700m shot off in Southern BC.
I can't believe I waited this long before entering the custom rifle world.
My advise I share with everyone I meet that has never shot a precision built custom rifle is:
Don't do it, it's been know to damage the thickness of your wallet. LOL.
Don
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TSXs in general. I've taken them up to 3950 fps and they are still net producers of vacuum.
Remember, Silence is Golden.
You you know when you chat with him your self.
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/ed.html
Don
Edit.
Make sure you have his written consent before posting anything from his book.
He's a awesome fellow indeed
Not the same guy
Ed Harris, the actor that was in Enemy at the Gate, is generally okay with the Second Amendment, but he doesn't own guns, thinks the NRA is too powerful and thinks that there should be more gun control in the USA with regards to "assault rifles"
Yes, my mistake for sure.
I did some researching last night to soon realize that CE Harris is a different fellow.
My mistake for sure.
But yes, CE Harris, the other fellow is the tech guy of bringing back the vintage ideas of old firearms.
He helped me out when returning to heavyweight cast boolitz this year.
I have to admit he has this pretty much down pat.
I did the vintage rifle stuff many years ago, this is what took me into the black powder world, I would of thought it would be crazy to cast boolitz for a 30/06,,, even though it was ok to do it for my 30/30 lever actions, 30/40 Creg, 45/70 and the sorts.
After trying the cast lead boolitz out of the 30/06, all I can say is WOW.
A can of pistol powder will last a long time, and the boolitz are darn near free less smudge pot. LOL.
Yuppers, the versatile 30/06 fits this bill as well. Lots of other cartrages to.
Sure fun plinking with it, the kids love tinkering with this stuff to. It's a family thing I guess.
Western Don
I did some researching last night to soon realize that CE Harris is a different fellow.
My mistake for sure.
But yes, CE Harris, the other fellow is the tech guy of bringing back the vintage ideas of old firearms.
He helped me out when returning to heavyweight cast boolitz this year.
I have to admit he has this pretty much down pat.
I did the vintage rifle stuff many years ago, this is what took me into the black powder world, I would of thought it would be crazy to cast boolitz for a 30/06,,, even though it was ok to do it for my 30/30 lever actions, 30/40 Creg, 45/70 and the sorts.
After trying the cast lead boolitz out of the 30/06, all I can say is WOW.
A can of pistol powder will last a long time, and the boolitz are darn near free less smudge pot. LOL.
Yuppers, the versatile 30/06 fits this bill as well. Lots of other cartrages to.
Sure fun plinking with it, the kids love tinkering with this stuff to. It's a family thing I guess.
Western Don
That is exactly what I intend to do. I have a Husqvarna 30-06 now with a 24” barrel that shoots lights out. And some pinpoint when we down size I’ll likely have to compress the gun room somewhat so want to keep things simple. An -06 meets that need. If I don’t handload, I can still get ammo anywhere. With a 168 gr bullet @ 2900 fps, not much you can’t shoot in NA. I harvested a griz using a 168TSX and it did the job. 150 TTSX - deer to moose - no problem. I may only add an -06 stainless to the locker for harsh weather.
Hand Skills
CGN Regular
- Location
- In the 'heartland', southern SK
When it came time for me to buy my first hunting rifle, nearly 20yrs ago, I chose the .300 WM looking at ballistics, it appeared obvious as the best choice. Until then, I had hunted with loaner rifles, mainly .308's. Recoil was not something that bothered me in the least - or so I thought.
To those who say 30-06 and 300 Wam are splitting hairs, this is simply not true. Take the 'do-all' 30-06, 180gr spitzer, and push it at 2800fps, 3000ft/lbs. By 500yd, it's lost half its energy - having 2000fps and 1500ft/lbs. That's pretty respectable, and adequate for dropping any animal in Canada. I don't know many people who would try a shot at that distance, so for most one could say it's more than most people need. A .308 w/ 165gr crosses that same threshold at 400yd, prefect adequate for most hunters. The 300WM with a 200gr spitzer at 3000fps crosses 700yd with 2000fps, and still has 1800ft/lbs of energy. If one is confident with ther bullet performance, our example crosses the 1500ft/lb threshold just shy of 800yd.
Keep in mind, these are 'standard' bullets - retained energy can be improved with high BC, long range projectiles.
My point is, there is a BIG difference down range. Does a 300wm kill twice as dead as a 30-06? Not really, but it has nearly twice the effective range within those parameters. (Sorry - couldn't resist following a post about cast boolits with this!)
There are also some drawbacks to a 300 WM. For example, I never harvested an animal with mine. After a couple hundred rounds at the range, I couldn't resolve my point of impact. If I was shooting from the bench, I was 3" high at 100yd. From standing, I was dead on. I was resting the rifle properly (on the stock, not the barrel) and could shoot sub-MOA from the bench. I could shoot about 4moa offhand. Suffice to say, I took shooting quite seriously at that time, but I simply didn't have the skill to shoot that rifle to the same POI every time. I'm sure with enough practice I could have figured out a way to do it, but I sold that rifle.
I got a 30-06. It shoots where I point it, from whatever improvised position I may be in.
It just works. A couple years ago I moved to SK, and my 30-06 with fixed 4x scope is just not the best plains deer rifle (many deer present themselves at 450-500yd with little option of stalking closer). Fortunately I inherited a pre-64 M70 from my grandfather in .270. I'm hoping to get approved for the EE. I would like to put a 3-18x scope on that rifle so when a big buck taunts me from afar, I will no longer just wave back at him!
I could get a new scope for my .30-06, but to me it's a part of that rifle. I feel 100% confident in that rifle, and with some luck we have never missed a shot at fur together. Don't get me wrong, I have other rifles and have missed a few, but never with 'old death' as I like to call her. I love my .30-06
To those who say 30-06 and 300 Wam are splitting hairs, this is simply not true. Take the 'do-all' 30-06, 180gr spitzer, and push it at 2800fps, 3000ft/lbs. By 500yd, it's lost half its energy - having 2000fps and 1500ft/lbs. That's pretty respectable, and adequate for dropping any animal in Canada. I don't know many people who would try a shot at that distance, so for most one could say it's more than most people need. A .308 w/ 165gr crosses that same threshold at 400yd, prefect adequate for most hunters. The 300WM with a 200gr spitzer at 3000fps crosses 700yd with 2000fps, and still has 1800ft/lbs of energy. If one is confident with ther bullet performance, our example crosses the 1500ft/lb threshold just shy of 800yd.
Keep in mind, these are 'standard' bullets - retained energy can be improved with high BC, long range projectiles.
My point is, there is a BIG difference down range. Does a 300wm kill twice as dead as a 30-06? Not really, but it has nearly twice the effective range within those parameters. (Sorry - couldn't resist following a post about cast boolits with this!)
There are also some drawbacks to a 300 WM. For example, I never harvested an animal with mine. After a couple hundred rounds at the range, I couldn't resolve my point of impact. If I was shooting from the bench, I was 3" high at 100yd. From standing, I was dead on. I was resting the rifle properly (on the stock, not the barrel) and could shoot sub-MOA from the bench. I could shoot about 4moa offhand. Suffice to say, I took shooting quite seriously at that time, but I simply didn't have the skill to shoot that rifle to the same POI every time. I'm sure with enough practice I could have figured out a way to do it, but I sold that rifle.
I got a 30-06. It shoots where I point it, from whatever improvised position I may be in.
It just works. A couple years ago I moved to SK, and my 30-06 with fixed 4x scope is just not the best plains deer rifle (many deer present themselves at 450-500yd with little option of stalking closer). Fortunately I inherited a pre-64 M70 from my grandfather in .270. I'm hoping to get approved for the EE. I would like to put a 3-18x scope on that rifle so when a big buck taunts me from afar, I will no longer just wave back at him!
I could get a new scope for my .30-06, but to me it's a part of that rifle. I feel 100% confident in that rifle, and with some luck we have never missed a shot at fur together. Don't get me wrong, I have other rifles and have missed a few, but never with 'old death' as I like to call her. I love my .30-06
Versatility comes to mind.
Many of the middle ground cartrages cover this quite well.
The mid low powder consumption rate makes them a favorable idea when choosing a cartrage.
Many of us know what level of powder we want to burn and save. Barrel wear might be part of this, how much we are going to shot, what we will shot, terrain, and many other factors.
I'm a 5000 + large bore shooter per year, distance is key, along with longevity of barrel wear to accuracy.
Purhaps these mid range cartrages might add a small fraction of extended life over a time frame, this I don't know till I end up with more outers then inners at 900m's.
At the 60/40 point a new stainless steel barrel will be on order "hopefully" before I close in on the 50/50.
It might be safe to say that those of us that "choose" the 6.5 on up to 30/06 and stuff in between cartrages might reap some rewards over a long time frame.
Load hot, medium, or cold depending on what category one wants to participate in.
If we are re-load type of folks, we can benefit from this.
I guessing if we're going after big game season we would most likely take full advantage of what our cartrage can provide.
We can drop down to the next lower node for match shooting as the accuracy idea holds the line.
We see this in F class shooting,,, just off max loading saves a good amount of powder,,, we see this if we are over the 3000 to 5000 rounds per year type of shooters.
The younger kid pet loads are part of our family mix.
These light loads welcome everyone to join in.
To keep the cost at bare minimum the cast boolitz with pistol powder showed up.
I caution everyone that ever chooses this route of using pistol powder loads,,, "IT MIGHT BE WIZE TO PRACTIC USING THE DROP STICK CASING STICKS" to prevent form ever doing a double load.
The best practic is the lay-down cases to the 1 case holder load, then move the case with funnel to the bullet seating tray once the charge is dropped,,, that way it prevents the chances of a double charge.
"Extrem mind on task since this could be a very nasty situation if it were to happen."
Find a wize and one step process to factor this out,,, learn it well and improve on it.
These pet loads are fun,,, not only shooting them but the whole aspect of it since the youngers get to learn how the whole idea of shooting sports play out.
The saving are incredible, and it allows for endless weeks months and year after year of frugal shooting.
I picture my self at the later part of my shooting days going to the lead boolitz only for plinking and up close game harvests,,, just like archery and black powder.
Versatility might be why I have gone the Ought-6 route.
Practical in savings, fun at many different angles, and rewarding.
Of course all rifles and calibers can pull this off.
The middle ground just happens to be an area of the puzzle with in the mix.
Don at more wrong then right.
Many of the middle ground cartrages cover this quite well.
The mid low powder consumption rate makes them a favorable idea when choosing a cartrage.
Many of us know what level of powder we want to burn and save. Barrel wear might be part of this, how much we are going to shot, what we will shot, terrain, and many other factors.
I'm a 5000 + large bore shooter per year, distance is key, along with longevity of barrel wear to accuracy.
Purhaps these mid range cartrages might add a small fraction of extended life over a time frame, this I don't know till I end up with more outers then inners at 900m's.
At the 60/40 point a new stainless steel barrel will be on order "hopefully" before I close in on the 50/50.
It might be safe to say that those of us that "choose" the 6.5 on up to 30/06 and stuff in between cartrages might reap some rewards over a long time frame.
Load hot, medium, or cold depending on what category one wants to participate in.
If we are re-load type of folks, we can benefit from this.
I guessing if we're going after big game season we would most likely take full advantage of what our cartrage can provide.
We can drop down to the next lower node for match shooting as the accuracy idea holds the line.
We see this in F class shooting,,, just off max loading saves a good amount of powder,,, we see this if we are over the 3000 to 5000 rounds per year type of shooters.
The younger kid pet loads are part of our family mix.
These light loads welcome everyone to join in.
To keep the cost at bare minimum the cast boolitz with pistol powder showed up.
I caution everyone that ever chooses this route of using pistol powder loads,,, "IT MIGHT BE WIZE TO PRACTIC USING THE DROP STICK CASING STICKS" to prevent form ever doing a double load.
The best practic is the lay-down cases to the 1 case holder load, then move the case with funnel to the bullet seating tray once the charge is dropped,,, that way it prevents the chances of a double charge.
"Extrem mind on task since this could be a very nasty situation if it were to happen."
Find a wize and one step process to factor this out,,, learn it well and improve on it.
These pet loads are fun,,, not only shooting them but the whole aspect of it since the youngers get to learn how the whole idea of shooting sports play out.
The saving are incredible, and it allows for endless weeks months and year after year of frugal shooting.
I picture my self at the later part of my shooting days going to the lead boolitz only for plinking and up close game harvests,,, just like archery and black powder.
Versatility might be why I have gone the Ought-6 route.
Practical in savings, fun at many different angles, and rewarding.
Of course all rifles and calibers can pull this off.
The middle ground just happens to be an area of the puzzle with in the mix.
Don at more wrong then right.
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Years ago the 30/06 was the big bore of its day.
It would be known as the achievement of the century, this alone adds mixed emotions to the owners of this size cartrage, but many other folks looking at it from the out side in.
What stands out with this cartrage that us plinker'ing type folk like.
Barrel life while launching this 150, 180's and 212gr bullets.
Not only the 30/06, but the trusted 308.
Of coures the 30/06 handles the 180gr bullet on up range a small fraction ahead of the 08 due to case capacity, that little edge adds a limited few more ft-per seconds.
An example might be 1500 to 1700m'ers.
The 168gr 308 when loaded hot Hot Hot, can get those 168's down there to the 1500m PRS distance. The bullet by that time has pretty much fallen to the last remaining edges of this sub sonic line. This small fraction of extra case in the 06 covers that area.
The last few years have brought on the 2 mile,,, but many many years before this came about, there was another mile,,, they called it the 1 mile. / or 1600m,,, the nice thing about the Ought-6 is it is just past this sub line, but those big old 180gr bullets don't know any better as they seem to continue to this 1700 marks,,, of course this works best on those calmer days with out the 40 to 60 mpr cross breezes. LOL.
Of all the medium size cartrages,,, the 06 is at the very bottom of the mile, yes that the 308 155gr full metal jacket is on this line,,, but its alot further climb up the ladder,,, even the 06 struggles.
Sonic and light winds play havoc.
So the 08's work good in the 4, 8's, and 900 meters, the 30/06 would as well,,, but not being the NATO cartrage no more puts it in F open.
Nothing wrong with this either.
If this was not the case, purhaps it would still be in the F/ FTR category along side the 308 & 223.
So what comes into play in my thinking:
Barrel wear and hot flash burn.
There have been many many studies on this and the average person,,,, average dosen't worry or think about this when buying a rifle. Well not until accuracy becomes an issue, then things get pricey.
But this is for folks like me and a few others that exceed the 5000+ rounds per year stuff.
The average person might shoot 20 rounds a year, those rifles will last many generations.
This year I was in my friends back shop, his barrel bin had a few barrels in it,,, I pulled out what I thought was a next to new barrel.
What's wrong with this pipe I asked.
It's done, look at the lead.
I held it up to the light and sure enough.
4" to 6" of the rifling was burnt off.
Riflings as flat as a pancake.
The owner was pushing maximum velocities with many shots when his groups fell apart.
Lucky thing is that at least he didn't invest lots of time and funds trying to correct a lot burnt out barrel.
This can happen to all cartrages.
My idea from long ago to where I'm at today is longevity.
30/06 loaded 98% of its life time at 308 specs.
Probably not the best of ideas, but hey,,,, what's a fellow to do.
I like shooting, I enjoy doing alot of it. I don't need 7 to 14 rifles any more, 2 is lots in the medium big bore category.
My PRS friend has finished off his 2nd 308 barrel in the last 3 1/2 years. Ruffly 28 to 30.000 rounds from his Canadian armed forces rifle.
He can ship it out East and have it re-barreled in a week.
This company only makes 1 rifle from what I gathered, 6.5 & 308. The inventory is always in stock,,, this might be why they have the Canadian contract. Don't know since I've never owned one.
He told me the price tag as I cringed,,, but after looking at it, he is getting the best bang for his buck since he competes across most of North America. Florida to California, BC to Eastern Canada..
I like his idea, but I decide to build my own off a Remington action in 30/06.
Custom stock & barrel to fit the tactical profile, trigger and optics to fit the build of later date PRS.
Deffinatly a firm custom Bolt that produces a fraction of more consistency.
This is what works for me and others that find this mid steam cartrages.
Yes its not the crown and Jewel, no its not the bottom of the barrel.
It's hopefully the middle ground of practical. Each person gets to find this for them selves.
From the BB gun on up to the land cannons of endless possibilities, the trick is finding the one that suits it's cause that works for us.
This weekend is fun time as our range is 364 and heated. Lots of in field reloading, shooting and visiting. That all I can ask for in one of the many favourite hobbies.
Don
It would be known as the achievement of the century, this alone adds mixed emotions to the owners of this size cartrage, but many other folks looking at it from the out side in.
What stands out with this cartrage that us plinker'ing type folk like.
Barrel life while launching this 150, 180's and 212gr bullets.
Not only the 30/06, but the trusted 308.
Of coures the 30/06 handles the 180gr bullet on up range a small fraction ahead of the 08 due to case capacity, that little edge adds a limited few more ft-per seconds.
An example might be 1500 to 1700m'ers.
The 168gr 308 when loaded hot Hot Hot, can get those 168's down there to the 1500m PRS distance. The bullet by that time has pretty much fallen to the last remaining edges of this sub sonic line. This small fraction of extra case in the 06 covers that area.
The last few years have brought on the 2 mile,,, but many many years before this came about, there was another mile,,, they called it the 1 mile. / or 1600m,,, the nice thing about the Ought-6 is it is just past this sub line, but those big old 180gr bullets don't know any better as they seem to continue to this 1700 marks,,, of course this works best on those calmer days with out the 40 to 60 mpr cross breezes. LOL.
Of all the medium size cartrages,,, the 06 is at the very bottom of the mile, yes that the 308 155gr full metal jacket is on this line,,, but its alot further climb up the ladder,,, even the 06 struggles.
Sonic and light winds play havoc.
So the 08's work good in the 4, 8's, and 900 meters, the 30/06 would as well,,, but not being the NATO cartrage no more puts it in F open.
Nothing wrong with this either.
If this was not the case, purhaps it would still be in the F/ FTR category along side the 308 & 223.
So what comes into play in my thinking:
Barrel wear and hot flash burn.
There have been many many studies on this and the average person,,,, average dosen't worry or think about this when buying a rifle. Well not until accuracy becomes an issue, then things get pricey.
But this is for folks like me and a few others that exceed the 5000+ rounds per year stuff.
The average person might shoot 20 rounds a year, those rifles will last many generations.
This year I was in my friends back shop, his barrel bin had a few barrels in it,,, I pulled out what I thought was a next to new barrel.
What's wrong with this pipe I asked.
It's done, look at the lead.
I held it up to the light and sure enough.
4" to 6" of the rifling was burnt off.
Riflings as flat as a pancake.
The owner was pushing maximum velocities with many shots when his groups fell apart.
Lucky thing is that at least he didn't invest lots of time and funds trying to correct a lot burnt out barrel.
This can happen to all cartrages.
My idea from long ago to where I'm at today is longevity.
30/06 loaded 98% of its life time at 308 specs.
Probably not the best of ideas, but hey,,,, what's a fellow to do.
I like shooting, I enjoy doing alot of it. I don't need 7 to 14 rifles any more, 2 is lots in the medium big bore category.
My PRS friend has finished off his 2nd 308 barrel in the last 3 1/2 years. Ruffly 28 to 30.000 rounds from his Canadian armed forces rifle.
He can ship it out East and have it re-barreled in a week.
This company only makes 1 rifle from what I gathered, 6.5 & 308. The inventory is always in stock,,, this might be why they have the Canadian contract. Don't know since I've never owned one.
He told me the price tag as I cringed,,, but after looking at it, he is getting the best bang for his buck since he competes across most of North America. Florida to California, BC to Eastern Canada..
I like his idea, but I decide to build my own off a Remington action in 30/06.
Custom stock & barrel to fit the tactical profile, trigger and optics to fit the build of later date PRS.
Deffinatly a firm custom Bolt that produces a fraction of more consistency.
This is what works for me and others that find this mid steam cartrages.
Yes its not the crown and Jewel, no its not the bottom of the barrel.
It's hopefully the middle ground of practical. Each person gets to find this for them selves.
From the BB gun on up to the land cannons of endless possibilities, the trick is finding the one that suits it's cause that works for us.
This weekend is fun time as our range is 364 and heated. Lots of in field reloading, shooting and visiting. That all I can ask for in one of the many favourite hobbies.
Don
Some times people find them selves in a time frame where they choose the one firearm idea.
Again, it's each persons "choosing" what firearm it is.
The nice function of the Ought-6 is it works ok for a middle grounds.
They can reach out there if one chooses to push the limits, and they are able to run soft pet loads in close encounters of the furry kind of bush Hog harvests.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=333191
Again, the cartrage that best suits each persons needs.
Pellet gun or 50 BMG if that's what works for you.
Enjoy the read my friends,,, those that think and dream of 1 have tools like this thread to work off of.
It is not for everyone, it doesn't come easy, but once a person sees the rewards of running with 1, it takes about a year of extend shooting time to catch onto it.
Once the light comes on, it's the Begining of a new world.
Second nature kicks in and the word second guesses disappears.
From Western Canada Don
Again, it's each persons "choosing" what firearm it is.
The nice function of the Ought-6 is it works ok for a middle grounds.
They can reach out there if one chooses to push the limits, and they are able to run soft pet loads in close encounters of the furry kind of bush Hog harvests.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=333191
Again, the cartrage that best suits each persons needs.
Pellet gun or 50 BMG if that's what works for you.
Enjoy the read my friends,,, those that think and dream of 1 have tools like this thread to work off of.
It is not for everyone, it doesn't come easy, but once a person sees the rewards of running with 1, it takes about a year of extend shooting time to catch onto it.
Once the light comes on, it's the Begining of a new world.
Second nature kicks in and the word second guesses disappears.
From Western Canada Don
Bird Blaster
Regular
- Location
- Northern Ontario
Can't beat the venerable 30.06.
I've had a few and sold them all and have come to the realization that I must have one 30.06 in the safe. It is a perfect fail safe gun, it can and will do everything from handloads to factory. In a pinch, can't find a fancy ammo somewhere? Can always find 30.06 in whatever flavour you want and need.
I still like my other calibers for specific tasks.
Picked up a 6.5x55mm for deer and use my 300 WSM for big critters like moose. My 30.06 has become my bush banging gun, bear gun, toss on the ATV or in the truck gun. Its a workhorse.
I will always have a 30.06 in my house.
I've had a few and sold them all and have come to the realization that I must have one 30.06 in the safe. It is a perfect fail safe gun, it can and will do everything from handloads to factory. In a pinch, can't find a fancy ammo somewhere? Can always find 30.06 in whatever flavour you want and need.
I still like my other calibers for specific tasks.
Picked up a 6.5x55mm for deer and use my 300 WSM for big critters like moose. My 30.06 has become my bush banging gun, bear gun, toss on the ATV or in the truck gun. Its a workhorse.
I will always have a 30.06 in my house.
The way i see it:
I can think of 4 scenarios in which a firearm would/could be useful
1. Hunting for food...self explanatory
2. Shooting sports; ie: target shooting/proficiancy or just plain fun or competition
3. Self or 4. defence of others: Ie: War or civilization breakdown in a world that i hope we or our kids never see.
My opinion is that as far as hunting is concerned, i would kill an animal for food if i HAD to but not for a trophy....that's just me...the 3006 can do most of it and would be my choice. It can dispatch any animal in north america and has the advantage of many load types. That is not to say other caliber rifles cant do the same but overall anything walking will drop with the right shot placement and the 3006 can do it well.
As far as shooting sports....responsible people have been doing it for years and i think its a great sport....use whatever firearm you are legally allowed.
As for self defence: I hope never to be in that situation but i am talking about a world where rule of law has collapsed or something so dire that firearms are needed to stay alive. Or same situation in the wilderness...then i would want the following:
12 gauge pump....wilderness birds or defence from dangerous critters up close or even a deer gun.
3006 rifle...wilderness hunting for food
.22 rifle....rabbits and small game...light, easy to carry...cartridges are plentiful and cheap...
hand gun of your choice....This is for very close in attacks that you simply don't see coming from predators....couger or wolf spring to mind.
When i look in my gun safe and say to myself it is time to bug out, then that is what i would take.
Now, having said that, in the real world as it is now i have a collection of various firearms....i like to think i am a responsible gun owner and i don't break laws or condone those who do. But, if i could only have the one rifle, and i have many caliber rifles...it would be the 3006 for all around everything. Other calibers i think are good would of course include the 308, 270, 300mag or even larger caliber rifles but in Canada the 308 and 3006 probably are the most popular and ammunition is easy to come by. And i would venture that the venerable 12gauge and .22 can be found in most gun safes too.
Getting everyone to agree on ONE gun will just not happen as we all have various opinions and reasons for what we like or justify but my vote goes to the 3006.
I can think of 4 scenarios in which a firearm would/could be useful
1. Hunting for food...self explanatory
2. Shooting sports; ie: target shooting/proficiancy or just plain fun or competition
3. Self or 4. defence of others: Ie: War or civilization breakdown in a world that i hope we or our kids never see.
My opinion is that as far as hunting is concerned, i would kill an animal for food if i HAD to but not for a trophy....that's just me...the 3006 can do most of it and would be my choice. It can dispatch any animal in north america and has the advantage of many load types. That is not to say other caliber rifles cant do the same but overall anything walking will drop with the right shot placement and the 3006 can do it well.
As far as shooting sports....responsible people have been doing it for years and i think its a great sport....use whatever firearm you are legally allowed.
As for self defence: I hope never to be in that situation but i am talking about a world where rule of law has collapsed or something so dire that firearms are needed to stay alive. Or same situation in the wilderness...then i would want the following:
12 gauge pump....wilderness birds or defence from dangerous critters up close or even a deer gun.
3006 rifle...wilderness hunting for food
.22 rifle....rabbits and small game...light, easy to carry...cartridges are plentiful and cheap...
hand gun of your choice....This is for very close in attacks that you simply don't see coming from predators....couger or wolf spring to mind.
When i look in my gun safe and say to myself it is time to bug out, then that is what i would take.
Now, having said that, in the real world as it is now i have a collection of various firearms....i like to think i am a responsible gun owner and i don't break laws or condone those who do. But, if i could only have the one rifle, and i have many caliber rifles...it would be the 3006 for all around everything. Other calibers i think are good would of course include the 308, 270, 300mag or even larger caliber rifles but in Canada the 308 and 3006 probably are the most popular and ammunition is easy to come by. And i would venture that the venerable 12gauge and .22 can be found in most gun safes too.
Getting everyone to agree on ONE gun will just not happen as we all have various opinions and reasons for what we like or justify but my vote goes to the 3006.
Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland
三零零六打鹿和熊很好
