Copper bullets?

Slamfire said:
...Above a certain impact speed the petals disintegrate but less of an issue if this happens with heavy calibers...
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bearkilr said:
I've shot Barnes offerings for many years but I'm starting to move away from them. They can always be counted on to penetrate, but often they behave like a solid,...
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Higher ballistic coefficient for higher down-range speed using the TSX, but their solids also perform quite well at close range. Punches straight-line clear through on heavy game at any angle. Imparts plenty of shock and produces large wound volume. Not much if any expansion is needed with high speed .40+ calibers.
 
Slamfire said:
Higher ballistic coefficient for higher down-range speed using the TSX, but their solids also perform quite well at close range. Punches straight-line clear through on heavy game at any angle. Imparts plenty of shock and produces large wound volume. Not much if any expansion is needed with high speed .40+ calibers.
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Wait til you plug a buffalo with a .458 solid and he laughs at you.
 
Used 150 gr tsx in 7RM on 2 deer last season. Both went 40 yards pumping blood from thru and thrus and dropped. Less dramatic kills generally, but very efficient.
As others have said, they need speed, but easy to do because you can use 80% of the weight you normally would. A 150 gr tsx is equivalent in killing power to a 175 grain cup and core.
Have used ballistic tips/SSTs previously and lost a lot of meat to bullet fragments.
Also, don't want to feed myself or my kids lead.
Best of all, they group very well (MOA or better) in Tikka t3. Load is over 67.5gr 7828ssc IIRC.
 
Dogleg said:
When you have to sell factory ammo in "unleaded states" you do what you have to do. Lead free laws that Barnes helped lobby to pass, BTW.
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That's the reason that if I want to shoot a copper bullet I will look elsewhere than Barnes first. The lead bans for rifle bullets have more to do with getting rid of hunting than they do for anything else. For Barnes to sit there and nod there head in agreement as anti hunters try to shut down another part of the hunting lifestyle/industry simply rubs me the wrong way.
 
Some background on the lead hunting bullets ban. An attempt to keep lead out of the food chain. Seems to be gaining momentum around the world, some European nations have or will be enacting a ban on lead hunting bullets. Probably will have to get used to it here eventually.

"Concerns over animals eating lead contained in bullet fragments dates back to 1991. That’s when a federal ban on using lead ammunition to hunt water birds was enacted after studies found that ducks were dying after ingesting lead. But the ban only applied to water birds.

In 2008, California banned lead ammunition in key habitat areas for the endangered California condor, which nearly became extinct in the early 1990s. Scavengers such as condors eat the guts left behind by hunters, putting them particularly at risk of lead poisoning."

https://www.revealnews.org/article/california-begins-first-phase-of-lead-ammunition-ban-for-hunters/
 
Trust me slamfire I am quite well educated on the lead/hunting issues. The waterfowl argument holds water. The Condor argument does not as the remaining populations lead levels have not dropped since the ban, in fact some have increased. There getting the lead from else where.
 
Another monometal design I'm eager to try, the Cutting Edge Bullets MTH (Match/Tactical/Hunting). Got the 340gr loaded in my .416 Ruger at 2500 fps MV -

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/cutting-edge-bullet-design

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I used a bunch of the CEB Safari Raptors on water buffalo population control hunts. At super close range to keep the velocity up, and if was no intervening vegetation (good luck with that) they weren't bad. Nothing special though. Hit a twig and you had a 7 piece bullet. On balance of characteristics the TSX is a better bullet by far. The A-Frame was better than both.
 
I've been using them for a few years on moose and deer. In 2 calibers 30-06 168gn ttsx and 338wm in 210gn ttsx. So far I have not recovered a bullet always had pass through. This year a buddy switched his 7mm to the tsx 160gn. So I have experience with 3 calibers. Extremely effective often 1 shot is enough but on something the size of a moose I like follow up to anchor them. Always found the entry and exit are good with great wound channels. My buddy shot his moose head on(7mm)exploded her heart and the bullet made its way all the way through the body and was lodged somewhere in the hind quarter. Butcher found it but didn't keep it. Penetration is amazing and they're very effective in knocking down your game.

My buddy after seeing the destruction and how far the bullet traveled in that moose was sold on them.

They're not the cheapest hunting ammo and sometimes they're hard to find but I think they're worth it.
 
Slamfire said:
Interesting design. With the tip installed the .416 300gr ballistic coefficient for example just about doubles from 0.18 to 0.346. Wonder why someone would choose to fire these without the tip - in a tube magazine lever rifle I suppose?

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/416-300gr-esp-safari-raptor

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The biggest reason for not using the tips is in many cases hey won't fit in the mag with them. You can't necessarily just seat them
deeper, and even if you could some big cartridges are already struggling for powder room.
 
I've used tsx, ttsx and etip in a few different calibers. I prefer the etip across the board. Seems to shoot well and I could get a bit better velocity. Some say they copper foul worse than others but I haven't found that. I recovered one from my moose this year and it expanded well and retained all it's weight. I've shot deer with ttsx before and they died fine but ran a ways after being hit. I think they are overkill for deer but overkill isn't a bad thing when the point is to kill.
 
CZ_Brno said:
Sorry if this has been posted somewhere here before.

But I'm wondering what the thoughts are on copper bullets from anyone that has tried them? My understanding is that they are less toxic than lead but have expansion and humane killing issues?
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I've used Barnes bullets almost exclusively since the original "X" bullet was introduced. I've shot dozens of big game animals with them, and have had first hand experience of dozens more, shot by hunting partners. Never has there been an expansion issue, and all kills were 100% humane. I don't recall an animal ever going further than about 40 yards, after being hit. These bullets will penetrate into the vitals from virtually any angle and are very reliable killers. Will continue using them.
 
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