30-06s.... Love/Hate/Re-evaluate

As I look back at the collections of 29 main calibers I tinkerd with over the years, I hope that the 6 ends up being my practical cartrage.

This assorted collection I gathered over the years has some fairly good size cases, they make my 30/06 cases look tiny,,, the 308 is even a fraction smaller than it, about a 1/3 ish of those big bores.

I'll admit one thing, those big magnums can reach out there, these no dought about. Once they are dialed in they become the hunting unit only in most cases,,, this is a practical idea as they would last many generations since they might see 1 or 2 boxes of ammo per year.
My friend took up where where I left of,,, The power house 300 Ultra,,, that is one fine unit.
The first year he had it we run about 2 boxes of at the range to dial it in,,, then it was critter getter time.

No disrespect to my friend since his ideas at the time was well intended,,, a rifle and cartrage that could reach out "if that be the case" and that is able to take down what ever it tagged.
The disappointing part of his journey has in a way set him back,,, again,,, "in a way," in my opion and his.

The Ultra is a awesome cartrage, but for his Harvesting applications and terrain he visits,,, its not practical.
He tough he was going to sit on one side of the mountain in the West country of Albertas Eastern Slopes and reach out there 1200 to 2200m'ers across the big valley and take what ever he spots,,, this idea did not pan out. Very unforchanet since he perhaps think this out.

He mentioned the other day that he wished he kept his 7x57 Muser since it fit his application of harvesting and plinking to a "T."

He jumped into the 300 Ultra Mag when they first come out, $1300, topped off with a $1500 scope and at that time a box of ammo was sitting around $120 ish.
So ruffly $3000 +++ by the time he left the store, again,,, not bad for the power King.

So here we are today 7 years later, the Ultra never leaves the house, he only gets out Harvesting 2 or 3 days out of the year, and he's on the 4th box of ammo.

His shooting skills have now fallen by the weigh side, along with the thrill of the chase and many other things that brought him to the out doors.
It's almost like this Land Cannon took the wind out of his sails,,, purhaps other factors played into this as well,,, but not being a reloader type person, not allowing for range time and down range ballistic tracking has dashed his dreams,,, that and a few failed attempt of not being able to tag stuff,,, totally his fault as he put it.

Last night we were watching TV, and talking about our days gone by, we had many good times back then.

Then part way into the night he said this magic word,,, "Practical." he looked over at me and said it again. practical.
I see why you went back to where you started my friend,,, you did this so you could return to the trees, and hopefully with the grace of the supreme bean you might pull off the edges of a long distance take-down.

I smiled & shrugged my shoulders, I suppose.

He knows I spent from spring to fall dialing in this new rifle and BDC retrical optics. He's well aware of my passion at ranging and trying many different things... And pre season scouting,,, ok,,, more time just being out there if anything.

Funny that sitting there has not only opened his eyes and mind to this concept,,, but even I gained something from his word.

Practical,,, just enough with the possibilities of unknowns so long as I put in my range time and stay keen at my ranging,,, again.
Each of us choose plot our journey, how we get there depends on how we fore-go it.

Don in the game of practical
 
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Good thoughts there Don, I don't see a whole lot of 'practical' in the internets. It seems many of us spend more time typing and thinking about shooting than we do pulling the trigger and watching where the bullet goes. Even less time spent observing the effects once the bullet gets there. It's easy to get distracted - higher velocities, higher ballistic coefficients, lower recoil, less powder. It's interesting watching the barometer swing back from ultra mags to 6.5 creed and 6x47L. The 30-06 holds it's middle ground, a century later, still just as relevant. I know a few extremely practical guys. They would never post on a forum. We are lucky to have guys like Don sharing REAL experience. Out in the world, it's hard to argue with a 30-06 sporting a good optic and a practical stock. There are a lot of chamberings for which the same could be said, but few with the versatility of the old '06
 
In recent years the 30-06 has become a mundane cartridge; mostly because of the newly innovated wiz-bang cartridges. The 30-06 is a great all-around cartridge for not only North American big game but for many African animals. I have killed more big game with the 30-06 than any or cartridge, and my count of big game animals are well over 200, in Canada. Yes, I own one today and will be hunting with it again.
 
My apologies to everyone for not completing the idea of practical.
The above post was in regards to my friends take only.

Practical is a broad category depending on the person(s).

The use of a particular cartrage and caliber, depend'en on game for harvest, target shooting, plinking, competition, and personal self preference.

My friend along the Eastern Slopes of Alberta has a 50 cal BMG, and Lazzarone 338,,, these are toys for him.
His all round rifle is the old school 7mm Remington Mag.
It is used for game Harvesting only.
The others are for lazy day long distance shooting.

All of us have our practical, that's what really counts.
I think my friend with the 300 Rum kinda ended up beyond his practical since he is not a re-loader fellow, and target plinking was off limits with factory ammo due to over all costs.

Opposite of me, I would be lousy at game Harvesting if I didn't put in my time at the range, the main focus point I address is BDC retrical, and getting the ranging down pat.

But that's just me.

I hope the new up and coming find the practical that works for them.
As mentioned in the posts above,,, I never thought that I'd back track on case size, but I never thought I'd begin to age either. LOL

Don
 
As I mentioned in a above post about those that "choose" to push the all factory 30/06 "not" doing the AI or Sherman, here is one of those crazy loads.

Hornady ELD-X 178gr Hunter bullets sitting in front of Hodgen Suprform powder.

Minimum @ 54gr at 2650
max @ 59.7gr at 2850, the PSI of 57,600

The go to bullet a few years ago was the 165/168 due to the selection of powder back then, but this new powder steps up the game plan on this age old cartrage.

***Caution*** all loads should start with in a safe zone depending on the age and condition of each rifle.

Many surplus military rifles and some that were converted to sport rifles "might" not be safe to operate at these pressures.

A competent re-loader should be able to watch for the pressure signs,,, a few other options is finding a SAAMI spec firearms technician that has mastered safe re-loading technical data spread sheets.

I'm am hounered to have one of these fellows in our area.
SAAMI is the standard of safe firearms and the ammunition they shoot.

That way, we can find that magic load and not destroy the brass or damage the chamber & bolt.

If the rifle can handle these pressures, those 178gr bullets can reach out to 750m @ 1600 ft-per seconds with 1000 ft-lbs energy.
This will rock Deer size game with ease, and will stay in the sonic range of 1050m of 1180 ft-per seconds.

This opens the door to predator control across a quarter section field of 880 yards.
If your running a heavy weight Varmint class 30/06, that would allow to to hold with in the 8" group "providing a person is able to work with vertical & play the winds.

The well dialed in Ought-6 and shooter can pull this off so long as they work together.
My factory Remington Long Range is not factor less the barrel, chamber, bolt and stock,,, by this time next year the only thing left factory will be the chamber only.

I took on custom built rifle ideas this Sumner with my F Class build, there ain't no going back since I've seen what they can do.

Precision is key, having a rifle that can out shoot my skills is the reward of a good build.

Don't forget, our V ring is 5 1/2" for F Class at 900m. It is one tuff cooky my friends.

Don
 
Don_Parsons said:
Hornady ELD-X 178gr Hunter bullets sitting in front of Hodgen Suprform powder.

Minimum @ 54gr at 2650
max @ 59.7gr at 2850, the PSI of 57,600

If the rifle can handle these pressures, those 178gr bullets can reach out to 750m @ 1600 ft-per seconds with 1000 ft-lbs energy.
This will rock Deer size game with ease, and will stay in the sonic range of 1050m of 1180 ft-per seconds.

Don
Click to expand...

With any modern 30-06 it isn't that hard to get 2800fps with 180's. My m70 has a slow barrel and I get 2800 with 180gr sierra's and h4350. 57gr of powder.

With that said. I have 2 7mm-08's and with 162 eldx 2730-2750 is very possible in a factory gun. That puts you at 800 yards with 1788fps and 1149ft/lbs. That same 1180fps is delivered at just under 1300 yards with the same load. Also with less recoil, wind drift and powder used.
 
Yes, I hear yha HTH.

Yesterdays age old mid-size cartrages are showing some fantastic result with some of these new powders,,, or the ones that have been in production for along time.

It seems that they are finding better ways to control the burn rates that not only improve the mid-size cases, but the small & largers as well.

Powders and bullet designs have come along ways, I hope they continue on for years to come.

My 2 friends sold a few those Ought-6's this year, they mentioned that the sales on them are pretty constant across the board,,, 243, 270, 308, 30/06... The swing has showed good sales in the 7mm-08 & 6.5 Creedmoor.

Some of the younger generation coming into shooting sports seem to follow the small to mid-size case ideas since many of them enjoy plinking, partly Harvesting game.
Very few of them re-load their own ammo, so keeping it frugal allows them to take part in what comes along.

This is just a guess on my part.
The younger mid age folks have either taken up shooting sports or head long into Harvesting,,, this age group picks and chooses what ever.
Their not worried to foot the bill at what ever, some jump into reloading and the works.
This age group is kinda looking for its path way in which directions it will take them.

The mid age folks pretty much have things sorted, the odd ones like my self back track, some stay put where they are, others advance to the better improved cartrages that helps them reap the rewards on their journeys.

The older crowd mostly stays in the category their in,,, of course there are exception too the rules of no rules. LOL.

I guess it depends on the wealth of a district, region, or area, and the demographics of population that play roles in what "could" happen in the big picture.

I'm setting my self up in advance of where I hope to be if I get there.
Harvesting, shooting sports are a small part of the out-door door world I live in.
Hiking, OHV, camping, sight seeing, visiting, and just being out there.
My world motorcycle days are rapped up, boats are sold off, and the airplane / hot air balloon idea didn't pan out. Ha.
I'm not sure how long Nation match competition stuff will last for, but I'm going to take a run at it for sure.
It is the exhilarating thing I've done in years.

When the day comes when it ends, the barrel gets trimmed, stock gets the bottom clip added, and trigger will see the 1 1/2 lb pull,,, that way I end up with 2 PRS Bush Hog platforms for plinking and general Harvesting.
The mid-size cases is where I need to be when I get there.
Hopefully I'll be sighted in at 100 meters by then. LOL

Don, with hopeful less exceptions to the rules
 
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The 30-06 spent the first part of its life as the bad boy of 30 calibres. Of sure, there was the .300 H&H but there wasn't a whole
Lot of those rich pricks around to interrupt the '06 owner from lording his superior firepower over the 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 303 British or savage or odd lucky 300 Savage owner. No doubt there were 30-30 owners that thought they were compensating for something , and how those fancy dudes with their big guns were always getting the smirk wiped off their face by good old boys and their thutty thutties.

Times changed and cartridges that can beat the 30-06 at something or
Everything are all over the place. Now clan of the 06 has to get by by preaching moderation in all things. And using the same insults that were once aimed at them.


Soon they will demanding their own season.
 
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I hear a lot about the old actions which shouldn't be loaded hot like the more modern ones can be. Now, apart from the low-numbered '03 Springfield rifles, the Model 95 Winchesters, and the Savage Super Sporters, what old actions are we speaking of? Just curious.
 
The first military rifles were built for pressure ratings of 50.000 CUP / or 57.598 PSI,,, the M-1 Grands were built around this so the auto eject would operate smooth.

Later they found out the Bolt action 30/06 rifles could handle 60.200 PSI. The load posted with the 178gr bullets is below the 60.200 PSI mark, but it might be wise to work with the increasing load development.

Each rifle is different, head space, bullet jump and seating depth could change pressures,,, so I took this into account for everyone to be extremely cautious When developing loads.

There is a IMR 4955 powder charge that produces 60.000 PSI,,, it is known that some rifle can handle this pressure just fine, but again, it might be wize to keep and eye on the primers, case buldge just above base,,, about 3 or 4mm above the extractor groove cut in the case, and neck expansion.

Of course these measurements I leave for my SAAMI friend that has to tools, skills, and resources to make sure I don't destroy my brass. Ha.

My hunting rounds are maxed out, I find it wize to work with in the safe limits not only for a 30/06,,, but all cartrages I work with.

It is my duty when posting loads to "hope" that all of us are aware of the hazards when approaching max loads.

I've seen 1 chamber blow up, the other was a bolt coming out the back of a rifle.

Both shooters came out of these incidents ok less small abrasions of shrapnel,,, lucky, lucky indeed.
Both cases were due to reloading mistakes.
 
Dogleg said:
The 30-06 spent the first part of its life as the bad boy of 30 calibres. Of sure, there was the .300 H&H but there wasn't a whole
Lot of those rich pricks around to interrupt the '06 owner from lording his superior firepower over the 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 303 British or savage or odd lucky 300 Savage owner. No doubt there were 30-30 owners that thought they were compensating for something , and how those fancy dudes with their big guns were always getting the smirk wiped off their face by good old boys and their thutty thutties.

Times changed and cartridges that can beat the 30-06 at something or
Everything are all over the place. Now clan of the 06 has to get by by preaching moderation in all things. And using the same insults that were once aimed at them.


Soon they will demanding their own season.
Click to expand...

Very well said.
"The 30-06 is the only cartridge on the face of the planet that can't have the suck necked out it. The 270 is absolute proof of that."
Wise words, from a wise man...
R.
 
Other good shooters know more about this than me, one of our fellow shooting friends shared this idea with me,,, and I see why he offered this info.
Not only does the Ought reap the rewards of this, all rifles and cartrages do.

BDC optics, dial-up, and Texas Windage way point for distance.

Gravity has a hold of everything, all bullets in clued, so being wize to this allows us old school Ought-6 operators to reach out there once we access a proven method or (s) since there more ways the skin a bear then 1.

He shared with me the 11111, 5&1, maybe the 1&5, or Penta, Pentagon, or Quint.
I like the term 5-Long.

1 bullet, 1 case, 1 power, 1 primer, 1 consistant reloading way to keep it the same.

The advantage of this for slow fast drop bullet folks is knowing the the check points of each distance that needs calibration to stay in the Bulls-eye or on target.
When we shot the 5-long, it becomes second nature, and BDC retrical optics help us confirm these way points.

Here's a few examples of how I look at the 5-long which benefits the Old school Cartridge.
I have 2 optics for different applications, one for plinking, Harvesting, iron silhouette, and hopefully PRS, it's fast and accurate now that I have 6 months under my belt and 2000 rounds down range.
At the shooting I use the 6 built in sighting in the scope to get the bullet into the V ring at 100 to 600 meters using maximum zoom,,, of course I'm using SFP retrical,,, second focal plane,,, I like thin cross hairs, so this works for me. The option is FFP or First Focal Plane,,, this story will follow later on another post,,, Any-Who.

When I go Harvesting or iron silhouettes I use the quick pick 3 using the BDC system.

Crank the scope to the lowest of 3X's power and let it rip.
125m gets the cross hairs +.
250m gets the middle ground of cross hairs and first mill dot.
375 to 500m gets the first mill dot head on.

From muzzle to 500 meters in the matter of seconds.
Quick and fast.

The reason this works is because of shooting range time.
The 5-long, BDC retrical and practics makes it easy since its consistant.

1 rifle, 1 bullet, 1 constant reload pattern, and learn the ranging,,, I still use the Texas Windage idea, the BDC is just a tool that allows me to confirm shot placement.

I'll post more info on ranging the slow 30/06 bullets out further beyond the 600m mark in the days to come, and a way to range find objects using the built in range finder system that is built into the optics.

As I mentioned, the BDC system was designed for all rifle cartrages that have bullet drop, from the pellet gun to BMG 50cal.
All rifle cartrages benefit with this system, those of us in line with the heavy bullets for 30/06 and 308 will soon have ideas that they can apply to their needs going forward.

I'm a simple dude, I need simple things to keep it practical including the cartrage and optics.
Purhaps the Ought-6 fits this category.

2500 rounds and counting as I push the limits of Old School in a direction that needs doing.

At least we have ideas and tools that we can share in,,, "hopefully" they work with the 1 gun 1 ammo idea.

Don
 
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This weekend I get to go to the range to finish off the hunting rounds, then stock pile the Varmint and plinking loads till next harvest season.

This off season shooting is good as it allows me to confirm the ranging and sight in points.

I like jumping from 100 to 600m gongs, then after that I'll head to the hills to push the edges of the 1k shoots.

This allows me a chance to practic chasing the winds as I shoot for vertical in hopes of finding the groups.

This year will be part 2 of shooting the 178gr ELD-X and M in the other mid size case.

As I mentioned in one of the above posts.

The 30/06 in my mind is the 308 improved, my 308 Winny is a short case Ought-6.
They allow for tack driving so long as I do my part.

Always searching for ways to keep the hands smooth and steady.

Don
 
Really wanna spend some time with the 178gr ELD-X in a .308. Seems like it could be a good round.

Don_Parsons said:
This weekend I get to go to the range to finish off the hunting rounds, then stock pile the Varmint and plinking loads till next harvest season.

This off season shooting is good as it allows me to confirm the ranging and sight in points.

I like jumping from 100 to 600m gongs, then after that I'll head to the hills to push the edges of the 1k shoots.

This allows me a chance to practic chasing the winds as I shoot for vertical in hopes of finding the groups.

This year will be part 2 of shooting the 178gr ELD-X and M in the other mid size case.

As I mentioned in one of the above posts.

The 30/06 in my mind is the 308 improved, my 308 Winny is a short case Ought-6.
They allow for tack driving so long as I do my part.

Always searching for ways to keep the hands smooth and steady.

Don
Click to expand...
 
Don_Parsons said:
This weekend I get to go to the range to finish off the hunting rounds, then stock pile the Varmint and plinking loads till next harvest season.

This off season shooting is good as it allows me to confirm the ranging and sight in points.

I like jumping from 100 to 600m gongs, then after that I'll head to the hills to push the edges of the 1k shoots.

This allows me a chance to practic chasing the winds as I shoot for vertical in hopes of finding the groups.

This year will be part 2 of shooting the 178gr ELD-X and M in the other mid size case.

As I mentioned in one of the above posts.

The 30/06 in my mind is the 308 improved, my 308 Winny is a short case Ought-6.
They allow for tack driving so long as I do my part.

Always searching for ways to keep the hands smooth and steady.

Don
Click to expand...

Don you seem like a cool guy to go shooting with..... I am sure you have a lot of good stories to tell.
 
Kool dude for sure, I'm a pretty relaxed fellow with a good hart and soft mind. LOL.

I returned to the firearms world last year since I took on archery for 14 ish years, I thought that both sports would go hand in hand.

Our range I use has it all, 5 firearms lanes, and 2 archery set up's, and one sweet skeet shooting pads.


It has a heated firearms room, then a few steps out side the door is 600 meters of glory,,, best range I've visited in Alberta, and it's 1 hour from home.

364 days less Christmas.

Towmorow is a go for both rifles, trigger rest for target, Remple F Class bypod rest, front iron plate for the bypod skis, and a solid rear bunny ear bag.

All rifles benefit from set-ups like this, the heavy barrel Varmint 30/06 rocks when it's planted, my 308/ Ought-6 really shines since its packing 18 lbs of mass with a 32" Bull barrel.

Mid size cases are frugal to shot, many years ago I attempt this with my 300 Weatherby, it worked out ok, but at times it was just a bit to much.

It had the power, distance, and down range Thunder. It was hard on powder, and a fraction more in recoil. Nothing wrong with this for the young at Hart.
But the practical idea of cartrage was factored in on the returning to rifles.
As I mentioned in one of the above posts.

One 30/06 for everything, of course I didn't know anything about this F Class thing,,, Iron silhouette was part of my shooting back in the 80's,,, which is super fun. Part of my day will take in some of this,,, but more paper ranging and working on shooting forum for the up and coming season.

The only reason the 308/ Ought-6 ended up in the mix is to due to this F class mix of F-FTR,,, the other 2 categories are:::

Stock F:
These rifles need to remain stock from factory, and in 223 or 308.

F-FTR in 223 or 308, what ever you can dream up, but the all in weight is capped at 10 kgs.

The next category is one I preferred not to jump into since I'm new at this F stuff.

F-Open :
I think it is capped at 12 kgs, and is open for all calibers from 233 on up the 338 Lapua or Lazzarone "Range Approved" if I recall, others will chime in with more than I know about this.

Once I learn what needs learning, then I see my self building a 30/06 for this sport.
Getting started some where needs to happen,,, then expand from there.

The F shooting thing in our area is a mix.
F Class and TR. Both groups of folks are awesome,,, many of these folks have years under their belts, and are willing to share on things that work, and things that don't.

I'm game for getting schooled, blinders are off, open minded to those that have plaques and medals hanging on the walls.
These are the ones to follow as they pull those of us along till we have our own feet to stand on.

When I was working the butt, I seen my first 10 shoot group at 900 meters with 8 holes in the V ring I was sold.
I never thought it could be done with flags blowing in all directions as 20 top shooters challanged those winds. Dam Windy indeed.

Don

PS: it might take 2 years to put the 30/06 into this, but I won't know till I get their.
One fellow told me that a 30/06 will not out perform his cartrage of choice,,, I nodded my head and thanked him for his information

Ho Hummmmm, reminds me of a old Chinese saying, chasing the dragons tail of winds over the water.

Best to remain humble in hopes to become wize. LOL

Don at good times when I can find them
 
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Ye Ha

It's range day with 2 fantastic 30/06 rifles.

Rifle #1 is a Remmy LR Heavy weight Varmint class that is part way into its custom build.

Rifle #2 was a Remmy 308 that under gone the the full work over, the only thing that is factory is the action less the Pacific Tool and Gage bolt, trigger, bull barrel, Extra long laminated wood stock. I class it as the 30/06 short case since both rifles pitch the 178gr'ers at the same velocities.
The 30/06 short case is 1gr off max as the real Ought-6 is de-tuned by 3.5grs.
Both are seeing ft-per second values of 2675 ish give or take the +/-'s.

Range day is all about the consistant set-up form instead of actually shooting,,, and if shots are launched down range,,, they will be heading down there in the vertical line-up.

No need to shoot groups as that will come in time. Off season is the best, it gives all of us time wined down from harvest mode, and practic up for long range stuff.

Most of the load development stuff is sorted, but there is always little tweaks here and there that benefit tighter groups when needed.

The heated shelter is a plus, lots of room, and my in-field ammo system travels with me.
From Sun up to Sun down as we share lots of BS stories that are all true. LOL.

Kinda like sharing part of the dream with like minded folks.

Range days in Western Canada along the Eastern Slopes are awesome.
Hot coffee and more food then we can eat,,, later this winter the rifles will catch a ride into the mountains of snow on the quad with tracks.

We will find some long valley with a frozen rock face as the out crops become our wall of granite chipping stone.
The summer time we head back to the clay bank shoots so we can recover the bullets that show us the velocity of impact.

Most of them are pretty messed up from 100 to 600 meters.
They kind of resemble bullets at 700 to 900.
Depending on the clay and sand seems at 1 km to 1500 the bullets look pretty much intact.

At 1700 meters you'd never know it was shot from a rifle less the rifling groves.

Sun is just breaking, got to run.
Just being out there puts things into perspective, that's what really counts.

Old school Ought-6 is the way it is, no going back and diffenaty not forward as this size of cartrage is just enough to pull it off in learning skills and good times.

What else could a person ask for.

Din
 
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