Army Explains New Dual-Arming Policy for Modular Handgun System

sailor723 said:
That's my question....how is the new gun a better sidearm that the M9?
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Lighter, smaller, better control layout, the modularity even though the contract for the compact guns was a whopping 60,000 of the possible 500,000 guns(mostly destined for the navy). They also have nearly 20 fewer parts than a Beretta.
 
cancer said:
More kit to carry..
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I agree.... :cool:

I carried the BHP overseas along with my SMG in my tasking!! I had to... not much choice. Next weapon available to me was the GPMG and .50 cal on the carrier (M113A1)...

As a rifleman back in the Battalion, I carried the C2 with 2 bras of ammo (4 x 30 rds each 7.62mm)... that was heavy enough. Who needed a pistol ? Not me, that's for sure.... Here comes the anecdotal funny joke...

I was Platoon Wpns Det for one winter exercise... So we pulled that "Gun Sled" toboggan. In that toboggan were my 60mm Mortar, 84mm Carl Gustav, and Sled mounted (pintle equipped) Browning 1919A4 in 7.62mm...and all the flares, and all the Thunderflashes, and several cans of linked ammo, you get the rest of the idea...

"Hey Warrant, now that I'm Pl Wpns Det... can I get issued a pistol and park my C1A1?" says Private Barney....

"Shut the Fzck up and carry your C1A1...", replies the Warrant. That was the tone of the rest of my 2 week exercise.... ha ha ha haha

So much for carrying a pistol as a machine gunner as I was taught in Battle School.. Joke is on me! :wave:

Cheers,

Barney
 
yohann160 said:
Exactly. That's why you end up with forward assists and external pistons on AR's and endless solicitations to buy new guns to replace poorly maintained ones. Always buying new gear to mask a more critical issue.
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To be fair to the forward assist; in case of freak emergency there isn't anything else to send the bolt into battery.
 
sailor723 said:
That's my question....how is the new gun a better sidearm that the M9?
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You have been using the same car for 40 years, you have taught all your kids to drive on that same car....
You ran out of spare parts.... the frame has literally worn down so parts don't fir properly....

Time to buy a new car...
 
sailor723 said:
That's my question....how is the new gun a better sidearm that the M9?
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My bad. I should have worded that better. I did not intend to imply the 320 is a better design than the 92FS, only that being newer does not equal being better. Something must be measurably better to be called "better".
 
Daver_II said:
You have been using the same car for 40 years, you have taught all your kids to drive on that same car....
You ran out of spare parts.... the frame has literally worn down so parts don't fir properly....

Time to buy a new car...
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To complete that analogy, you would need the option of replacing it with a brand new version of the same car, the same in every way only newly-manufactured, versus buying a different model.
 
maxman1 said:
To complete that analogy, you would need the option of replacing it with a brand new version of the same car, the same in every way only newly-manufactured, versus buying a different model.
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Sure... but would you rather replace your 40 year old gas guzzler with with the same? Or maybe look at newer more effiecient technologies?
 
rkm456 said:
To be fair to the forward assist; in case of freak emergency there isn't anything else to send the bolt into battery.
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Absolutely the dumbest manual of arms ever instilled for the AR family of weapons. You don't jam a round into a chamber than wasn't going their on it's own steam. The FA was requested by the US Army before they adopted the M16, it was not part of the original design.

maxman1 said:
My bad. I should have worded that better. I did not intend to imply the 320 is a better design than the 92FS, only that being newer does not equal being better. Something must be measurably better to be called "better".
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I am no fan of the 320 but it is by far a better pistol than the M9. Read my post above.

yohann160 said:
They both fire the same 124 grain projectiles...
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Again, it's more about the operation of the pistol and it's physical attributes. The 320 is a superior pistol over the M9.
 
Kidd X said:
Absolutely the dumbest manual of arms ever instilled for the AR family of weapons. You don't jam a round into a chamber than wasn't going their on it's own steam. The FA was requested by the US Army before they adopted the M16, it was not part of the original design.
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I used to share the opinion that it was an unnecessary addition. After reading statements by people more knowledgeable than me on the issue, by both designers and real world users, I recognize that it's not without merit.
 
If only the US Army had done their due diligence and consulted CGN for advise on their new pistol, we'd be able to have a P320 thread that didn't somehow end up being about the M9

Thanks a lot, US Army.
 
jory said:
If only the US Army had done their due diligence and consulted CGN for advise on their new pistol, we'd be able to have a P320 thread that didn't somehow end up being about the M9

Thanks a lot, US Army.
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but then what would we do all day?
 
TacticalTeacher said:
Who needed a pistol ? Not me, that's for sure....
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In those circumstances for sure, no thanks.

But I know a few guys who have relied on one.

An officer that ran forward into fire to marry up with a section that had been abandoned by their NCO, in order to extract them from a kill zone.

An American NCO I worked with (civilian contractor at the time) that drew his in response to a threat against the governor of Kandahar province. I'm glad he had better reflexes than I did.

And me... when a very angry Afghan police officer showed up armed with an AK demanding back pay after being fired.

I'll agree they're most often paperweights, but when you need one...
 
flashman2 said:
And me... when a very angry Afghan police officer showed up armed with an AK demanding back pay after being fired.

I'll agree they're most often paperweights, but when you need one...
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In the picture I posted recently of the IEDd G-Wagon the crew commander had his rifle sucked right out of the vehicle and was lost for a few minutes in the chaos and smoke. He had a pistol and employed that for self-defense until he found his rifle again.


I'm not sure why people don't like the forward assist on the AR? I've effectively used mine many times when the bolt wasn't fully seeded because due to carbon and the amount of shooting we were doing. That's a tangent though, better to discuss why the US Army adopted the Sig 320 without accuracy tests ;)
 
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^ yup.

Same sort of deal. The Lt lost his rifle in the chaos of the assault during MEDUSA.

Have had to smack the bolt into battery on dirty M1 Garands and M1 Carbines too. No one bad mouths that ability.
 
jory said:
If only the US Army had done their due diligence and consulted CGN for advise on their new pistol, we'd be able to have a P320 thread that didn't somehow end up being about the M9

Thanks a lot, US Army.
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Apparently you missed the whole "we picked the P320 without testing it first" episode, eh?
 
Bruce Gray from Gray Guns tested an early stock P320 with his match ammo. He posted that it printed a 3.5" group at 50 yards. This was a bagged gun off a bench and he is an accomplished shooter. I'd say that's pretty good accuracy.

Rich
 
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