Unopened box of C21 7.62x51

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stickhunter

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Hi all,

I received an unopened box of 480 rounds of what I think is Canadian military surplus C21 7.62x51 ammunition:

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The box is still sealed/stapled shut, although one of the canvas straps has pulled through two of the staples. Before I open the box, I wanted to ask if there is any collector interest in keeping it sealed or should I just treat it as any other surplus 7.62x51?

I was doing a bit of research and came across an interesting website that shows some details of the bandoliers: h ttp://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~kevin_a/Canadaband.html

In particular, I'm curious to know if DAQ 65 refers to the year (Dominion Arsenal Quebec 1965), and if the bandoliers are likely to be the older rubberized type or the newer fabric type:

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I also just found this video, which shows the rubberized bandolier at the end:


Any info or suggestions on how I should handle it are appreciated. Thanks!
 
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1965 manufacture, before DA became IVI.

Probably good shooting ammo (although some lots/years were hit and miss with accuracy) with good reloadable brass. Easily worth 50 or 55 cents a round for the ammo, if not a bit more. The brass alone is worth 25 cents each.

My vote is to keep it clean and dry, as the case is in pretty good shape. Do you have a basement with minimal temperature swings to store it in?
 
It will be the rubber/plastic bandoleer.

DA ammo was made to a very high quality standard. Much better than IVI 7.62

But the accuracy of that ammo will depend on how it has been stored for the last 50 years. If it has been in a garage, hitting very high summer temps, and freezing in the winter, accuracy won't be good.

But if it spent most of its life in the hold of a ship, and then an ammo bunker, it will be as good as the day it was made.

I suspect that ammo is worth 75 cents a round, minimum, and more to a collector.
 
We saw a marked change in ammo quality with the shift from DA to IVI in the late 60s/early 70s. The packaging of 7.62 ammo in field/combat ready bandoleers was a very good idea. That all changed when we switched to IVI which packaged the rds individually in cardboard boxes, just like sporting ammo.
 
I think you would be doing well getting $500 in a face to face deal if you are considering selling it. Probably not many people would want to pay that much, but if it were mine I would start at that. I have a bunch of DA 65 dated 7.72 and it is not match ammo. In my experience it does 2 MOA at best in a precision rifle.
 
purple said:
We saw a marked change in ammo quality with the shift from DA to IVI in the late 60s/early 70s. The packaging of 7.62 ammo in field/combat ready bandoleers was a very good idea. That all changed when we switched to IVI which packaged the rds individually in cardboard boxes, just like sporting ammo.
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I must of missed that as I have never seen lose rounds from the factory, maybe , just maybe, it was a opened lot reissued from the Ammo techs. Everything I ever saw was clipped, or belted.
 
XRCD011 said:
I must of missed that as I have never seen lose rounds from the factory, maybe , just maybe, it was a opened lot reissued from the Ammo techs. Everything I ever saw was clipped, or belted.
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The box says it's "clipped" and it's unopened. Should be as listed on the outside of the box.

I opened a similar box a couple of years ago. It had been water damaged in a basement after a sump pump failure. It was only after cleaning up the mess that the owner realized it was there.

The box was not salvageable so I grabbed the bandoleers and squirreled them away for future use. Upon opening the first pouch a few years later all of the cartridges were covered in a thin green coating of verdigris. I opened the other pouches to discover the same with all the cartridges in that bandoleer. That led me to opening the other pouches. All, even though well sealed were in similar condition.

A quick soak/rinse with vinegar and water cleaned off the verdigris reasonably well but a follow up with soapy water/vinegar in a stainless steel pin tumbler brought it back to new condition.

The lot I have actually shot quite well out of a Remington 700 with a Palma Match chamber. Much better than the 2 moa mentioned previously. As Ganderite mentioned it varies from lot to lot.

I have some IVI that shoots very well. I also have some IVI that I pulled the components in because they shot so poorly. I found everything from erratic powder charges, case weights and bullet weights. The biggest thing though and I believe the major culprit of poor accuracy was that the bullets had up to .016 runout from true. I suspect either their set up people were sloppy/poorly trained, motivated or their equipment was in need of replacement. The present IVI that I've had the opportunity to shoot is as good or better than commercial offerings.
 
All of the older DA 7.62 in the rubber bandoleers I've ever opened was covered in verdegris as mentioned.

I had a bunch shipped to me in Africa almost 25 years ago that was the same - all gooped up. I can't imagine the intervening time has helped things.
 
flashman2 said:
All of the older DA 7.62 in the rubber bandoleers I've ever opened was covered in verdegris as mentioned.

I had a bunch shipped to me in Africa almost 25 years ago that was the same - all gooped up. I can't imagine the intervening time has helped things.
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Thanks for the info, guys. The link I posted with info on the bandoliers mentioned that they had oil-soaked cardboard inserts:

These bandoleers have an unusual smell of peanut or vegetable oil as the cardboard on the inside of each pouch is coated with the oil to stop the brass from tarnishing.
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My guess is that the rubber was known to off gas or leach acids that tarnished the brass.
 
^ completely forgot about that. Makes a lot of sense. All I remember is that they were intended for use in an FN for uhhhhhh... farm defence... and there was some disappointment at seeing the condition of the ammo.
 
bearhunter said:
The box says it's "clipped" and it's unopened. Should be as listed on the outside of the box.
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Bearhunter, I know exactly what the boxes hold and I was NOT wondering what the contents are or how packaged from the factory. The point I was making was the ONLY time I saw "lose" lots issued was via ammo techs at a TDM that was rounds opened, unfired then turned back into the ammo supply chain, repackaged and then reissued.
 
Neat, I would say keep it sealed as it would be desirable for collectors and would be perfect for a cold war era Canadian Display.

But that said 480 rounds is a lot to just let sit there.

If you do open it, attempt to open it in a way that will not damage the box too much, such as cutting it open from the back. That way it could still be put into a display empty and unless someone picked it up they would be none the wiser.
 
LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1 said:
Neat, I would say keep it sealed as it would be desirable for collectors and would be perfect for a cold war era Canadian Display.

But that said 480 rounds is a lot to just let sit there.

If you do open it, attempt to open it in a way that will not damage the box too much, such as cutting it open from the back. That way it could still be put into a display empty and unless someone picked it up they would be none the wiser.
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Yeah, I haven't yet reached that stage where I have the space to set up displays, but I'd sure love to one day. I'd also like to be able to sell the ammo and make a bit of $$$ to apply to something I can use, but I'm going to check to see if I can donate it to the local armoury. I posted about a trip I took there recently, and how impressed I was with their displays. When I spoke to one of the staff, he said they were mostly interested in sourcing WWII and earlier militaria, but I'll give them a ring and see if they're interested in this crate --- hopefully I might be able to get a tax receipt... who knows, but it would be great to see it on display.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...a-BC?p=14205893&highlight=ashton#post14205893
 
stickhunter said:
Yeah, I haven't yet reached that stage where I have the space to set up displays, but I'd sure love to one day. I'd also like to be able to sell the ammo and make a bit of $$$ to apply to something I can use, but I'm going to check to see if I can donate it to the local armoury. I posted about a trip I took there recently, and how impressed I was with their displays. When I spoke to one of the staff, he said they were mostly interested in sourcing WWII and earlier militaria, but I'll give them a ring and see if they're interested in this crate --- hopefully I might be able to get a tax receipt... who knows, but it would be great to see it on display.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...a-BC?p=14205893&highlight=ashton#post14205893
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A CF museum won't be able to display live ammo.

Better in that case to open it up and keep the rounds for yourself. At most they'd want the packaging for display. You could slit the bandoliers open from the back and they'd still be good for use in a cold war display.
 
stickhunter said:
Yeah, I haven't yet reached that stage where I have the space to set up displays, but I'd sure love to one day. I'd also like to be able to sell the ammo and make a bit of $$$ to apply to something I can use, but I'm going to check to see if I can donate it to the local armoury. I posted about a trip I took there recently, and how impressed I was with their displays. When I spoke to one of the staff, he said they were mostly interested in sourcing WWII and earlier militaria, but I'll give them a ring and see if they're interested in this crate --- hopefully I might be able to get a tax receipt... who knows, but it would be great to see it on display.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...a-BC?p=14205893&highlight=ashton#post14205893
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Like mentioned, the local armory would most likely destroy the ammunition and keep the box. If you wanted to donate it to a museum, cut open the box along the edges from the rear and removes the ammo. Then donate the box to the Amory. They would probably prefer that since then they would not have to go through the disposal of the ammo. Like mentioned you could open up the bandoleers in a discreet manor and donate them to the Armory as well.

Best bet is take it to a gun show and sell it, someone will be interested in it and you could probably sell it to a collector for enough money to buy twice as much 7.62.
 
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