Finnish M91 ammo options

walter23

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I've got a Finnish M91 (1920s Tikka) with C and D stamped on the barrel, which I understand means the bore measured to 0.308" and D means the chamber was elongated for some heavier later ammo they used.

Is it safe to shoot 7.62x54R russian surplus type ammo in this (the standard ~150 grain FMJ corrosive stuff you can buy almost everywhere that people shoot in Mosin 91/30s)?
 
I've got a Finnish M91 (1920s Tikka) with C and D stamped on the barrel, which I understand means the bore measured to 0.308" and D means the chamber was elongated for some heavier later ammo they used.

Is it safe to shoot 7.62x54R russian surplus type ammo in this (the standard ~150 grain FMJ corrosive stuff you can buy almost everywhere that people shoot in Mosin 91/30s)?

There are no M91's with .308 bores. Slug it if you aren't sure. C and D are both chamber reamer sizes. The D supersedes the C marking. It should be fine with any Russian or any surplus ammo for that matter.

If not sure, slug it. If it's .310" or larger, it will be fine.
 
> There are no M91's with .308 bores.

I read that the barrels were graded A, B, or C with C being tightest at .308 and A being around .311. D being a chamber modification to accommodate longer bullets later. Is that incorrect info? Unfortunately I just can't find the link now.
 
> There are no M91's with .308 bores.

I read that the barrels were graded A, B, or C with C being tightest at .308 and A being around .311. D being a chamber modification to accommodate longer bullets later. Is that incorrect info? Unfortunately I just can't find the link now.

No you are potentially right. Definitely slug the bore. I missed in my original post that it's a 1920's era tikka. In this case, it may indicate a .308 bore.

Slugging it is prudent.
 
So if it turns out to be .308 what is the implication? No military surplus ammo for safety reasons? Or no military surplus ammo for barrel life reasons? Or perfectly fine?
 
So if it turns out to be .308 what is the implication? No military surplus ammo for safety reasons? Or no military surplus ammo for barrel life reasons? Or perfectly fine?

Surplus ammo is steel core. To be safe, I would mic the bullets to make sure you know what you have. Some surplus is .308, some is .310, other stuff is .311. If you slug the bore, just shoot ammo of the matching diameter.
 
So if it turns out to be .308 what is the implication? No military surplus ammo for safety reasons? Or no military surplus ammo for barrel life reasons? Or perfectly fine?

I guess it depends how anal your impression of safety is. Please don't take that personally.

Your rifle and many more like it were made to shoot the issue ammo of their respective nations safely. The chances of a kaboom or any other damage is so minimal as to be considered not there.

a couple of thousandths of an inch will slightly raise pressures but they will still be within operating parameters. The worst effect will likely be noticed in accuracy and even that will likely be minimal.

The steel cores of the ammo in question is relatively soft. Not as soft as lead though. The jacket around the core has enough room for obduration to swage down to fit the bore as it enters the leade.


IMHO go ahead and shoot whatever you find. I would be more worried about unidentified hand loads than surplus or factory offerings.

Your rifle is old and if in decent condition should be strong. I also have an all matching M91 with SA marks and a .3085 diameter bore. It's a 1915 New England Westinghouse made in the US. I have no idea whether this rifle went to the Russians and the Finns later captured it or if it was sold directly to the Finns out of the US after the Soviets took over and the order was cancelled. I suspect the latter. The bore rates 8 out of 10 conservatively. Condition is VG+ all over.

It could care less whether the bullets are .311 or .308 diameter. It shoots them all into a group between 1 and 2 inches depending on whose eyes are behind the sights.

My go to handload which I use in all my M91 and M91/30 rifles is is 50 grains of IMR4350 over cci 250 primers using Sierra 174gr, .311 fmj match bullets which have lead cores. I also have a bulk pack of appx 180grn, .311 diameter pulled bullets I purchased from International around 30 years ago that has cupronickel jackets over steel cores. I've used most of these up now but I had 5000 of them at one time. I use the same load for those as the Sierra offerings. There really isn't much difference in accuracy.

This thread got me thinking again so I looked at my personal loading manual which is often firearm specific.

I use the same load for 180 grain FBSP bullets as well. I don't use these anymore as they are intended for hunting. They are old and made by CIL and have exposed lead bases, which likely help them to obdurate to the bore quite well.

Just as an example, I also have one of the first No4 MkII rifles built by Pakistan Ordinance Factory. It has a .3095 bore. It doesn't seem to care whether it shoots anything from .308 to .312. IMHO, the Mosin design is every bit as strong as the No4, maybe stronger, although they are originally intended for cartridges loaded to similar pressures.

About the only difference you might notice between cartridges, surplus or commercial is how fast your barrel heats up.

Shoot that old girl, keep her clean and she will outlast you and maybe your children, barring political ineptitude.
 
Okay, thanks for weighing in. This isn't something I've ever really worried about before, but then I'm not so familiar with older rifles, either. My definition of safe is "riding a motorcycle defensively and only goofing off occasionally", not "hide in my basement terrified". So I'm not totally anal but I would rather not put my face behind the bolt of a gun that has a non-negligible chance to blow up, either.

I do remember watching a youtube video of iraqveteran8888 trying to blow up a mosin, and having a lot of trouble doing it. I think he was doing ridiculous quantities of pistol powder before it finally gave up.
 
No, not elwood. What was the price there if you recall? No idea if I got a good deal or not on this one as not commonly seen.

$550. I asked because I have personal experience with that particular rife and while there were no ill effects from shooting surplus out of it, I did get pressure signs on the primer. I would stick to hand loads myself.
 
Ah, do you remember what the barrel marking was
(in terms of bore size), if any? I paid a little over that plus tax for mine.
 
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I use Bulgarian,Czech & Chinese surplus ammo and 185 grain MFS FMJ in all my Finn Mosins with no issues. Do not use MFS 203 grain SP, as those bullets have larger diameter. Friend of mine ended up with Bulged barrel right in front of front sight on his VKT M91, after 1 shot.
 
The old Doug Bowser book ("Rifles of the White Death") says, for '25 to '27 Tikka M91's, that A=.3106", B=.3091", and C=.3087". My recollection is that only the M28/30 had a sig. tighter bore?

milsurpo
 
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