HELP!!!! I'm totally out of my element on this! I have a chance to purchase a high quality English percussion lock heavy barrel target rifle. The condition seems excellent (I've only seen pictures) so I can't tell you about the bore, but the bluing is nice. It has a walnut stock, crescent butt plate, patch box, engraving of game birds, and the old full-length brass scope with the screw elevation adjustment at the rear. I don't know the caliber. It's marked "A.Selden, Whitehall" but I can't find the name on google...retailer perhaps? I'd buy it to flip it, but I don't know what a fair price would be. I know it's a little skimpy on information, but that's as much as I can tell you. Any knowledgeable input would be much appreciated.
Antique Heavy Barrel Target rifle w/scope
- Thread starter LawrenceN
- Start date
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
If you can get pictures posted you might get better answers.
ASSRA Forum also has some knowledgeable collectors who might be able to help.
ASSRA Forum also has some knowledgeable collectors who might be able to help.
OK mes amis, here's a pic. Perhaps one of you can do a better estimate based on this? I still don't know the caliber but this shot should be a good starting point for a good estimate. I'm not asking for an exact value, just a reasonable ball-park. Thanks'
With a drop like that it's going to be a rifle shot while standing, and THAT is NOT a British sport. Nor was shooting with any kind of a scope, á la benchrest or 'slug gun' shooting. BR was not a British rifle-shooting sport until well into the modern era, and there is still no UK history of slug gun shooting. That takes no account of the name on the gun, of course.
A. Seldon was none other than Alonzo Seldon - and this is one of his guns - he was a New York gunsmith who worked around the mid-19th C - in Whitehall NY.
https://hoveysknivesofchina.com/201...-old-guns-shooting-original-guns-bear-huntin/
With the stock style and lock style together, this gun dates from around the middle of the 19th C, not the beginning of the 20th.
tac
A. Seldon was none other than Alonzo Seldon - and this is one of his guns - he was a New York gunsmith who worked around the mid-19th C - in Whitehall NY.
https://hoveysknivesofchina.com/201...-old-guns-shooting-original-guns-bear-huntin/
With the stock style and lock style together, this gun dates from around the middle of the 19th C, not the beginning of the 20th.
tac
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Gentlemen, I appreciate your input. Tacfoley, if what you say is true, what are the chances that it is a rifle made by the brits for the American market? Secondly, guys check my post. I'm not asking you to commit to a firm price idea. I've been at this game for a while, and I know that the caliber and bore condition are critical to valuation. All I'm asking is a fair BALLPARK idea as to the worth of the rifle. Anyone?
Uh, please read what I wrote - Edward Alonzo Selden was born in Montréal, on 12 Dec 1842 to William A Selden and Abigail Church Whipple. Edward Alonzo married Isabelle Carol and had a child. He passed away on 5 Mar 1881.
He emigrated to New York State where he set up a gun-making business. His guns are much sought-after - one gentleman hunter on Youtube used one of his rifles to take a large bear.
As I wrote, there is absolutely nothing British about this gun, and the likelihood of it having been made by any British gun-maker is negligible - not with the vast numbers of American gunmakers in the day who DID make guns of this style.
It's not a matter of what I say being true, it is a matter of public record, the source of my information on Ancestry.com.
The scope and mounts appear to be very similar to the eponymous Malcolm scope.
I'm sure that real experts will be long soon, both here, and on sister sites muzzleloadingforum.com. and northwestfirearms.com where I am long-time member.
tac
He emigrated to New York State where he set up a gun-making business. His guns are much sought-after - one gentleman hunter on Youtube used one of his rifles to take a large bear.
As I wrote, there is absolutely nothing British about this gun, and the likelihood of it having been made by any British gun-maker is negligible - not with the vast numbers of American gunmakers in the day who DID make guns of this style.
It's not a matter of what I say being true, it is a matter of public record, the source of my information on Ancestry.com.
The scope and mounts appear to be very similar to the eponymous Malcolm scope.
I'm sure that real experts will be long soon, both here, and on sister sites muzzleloadingforum.com. and northwestfirearms.com where I am long-time member.
tac
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There is nothing about the style or configuration of the rifle that even hints at British manufacture, and the information that tacfoley has presented is confirmation.
IF the rifle has British proof marks, that would only mean that it went to Britain and got proofed there.
Bore condition does affect the value of antique target rifles.
Value would depend on a lot of things that cannot be determined from a couple of photos. Things like internal condition of the scope, bore, etc.
I would suggest value could range from $500 to $1500 dollars.
IF the rifle has British proof marks, that would only mean that it went to Britain and got proofed there.
Bore condition does affect the value of antique target rifles.
Value would depend on a lot of things that cannot be determined from a couple of photos. Things like internal condition of the scope, bore, etc.
I would suggest value could range from $500 to $1500 dollars.
I think in this area, if the gun, bore and scope are all in good shooting condition, the asking price at a gun show would be $2000 to $3000. At the same time, the gun is a bench gun and unless there is that style of shooting near you, there would be relatively few people who would want to buy it
cheers mooncoon
The muzzle is not turned for a piston starter
That would suggest that it is either a round ball gun, or the muzzle would be set up for a false muzzle to seat elongated bullets. A missing false muzzle is a real problem, because they were rifled along with the bore.
That would suggest that it is either a round ball gun, or the muzzle would be set up for a false muzzle to seat elongated bullets. A missing false muzzle is a real problem, because they were rifled along with the bore.
- Location
- On a sand bar in the Atlantic Ocean.
That is a very interesting looking gun. The drop of the stock would likely make it "interesting" to shoot. And it must be shot supported by bipod, tripod, crane (Just kidding). What is the weight of it?
Also, are you able to tell if the barrel is cast or forged? - Perhaps that might aid in determining the age?
Also, are you able to tell if the barrel is cast or forged? - Perhaps that might aid in determining the age?
From the era of American civilian gunmaking that includes arms like this, the barrel is far more likely to be made of fine twist iron, or stub-twist iron, movies of which can be seen being made on Youtube for both rifles and handguns today by master craftsmen.
Remember that even Winchester's mass-produced guns did not go over to steel barrels until 1894.
tac
Remember that even Winchester's mass-produced guns did not go over to steel barrels until 1894.
tac
I think the term "steel" in cast steel more closely resembles wrought iron than what we call steel today. Offhand, I don't recall seeing any American made rifles with twist or damascus barrels. The British rifle barrels that I have seen are often twist or damascus and I think that ended with the cartridge era. By the 1840s, I believe that Remington was making rolled barrels (rolling a short thick plug into a barrel contoured tube)
cheers mooncoon
The back-action lock, which was probably an import from Belgium (hundreds were sold in hardware stores - the importer, hardware store or gun builder often put their own name on the generic lock) would date it no earlier than 1850.
Many of the "target rifles" during that time frame were 40 or 45 caliber.
(edit) - found an article and pics describing another Selden rifle which was built in the 1860's - 1870's. The article describes the barrel as being a 3/4" 45 Caliber, 32" barrel made by Remington.
Many of the "target rifles" during that time frame were 40 or 45 caliber.
(edit) - found an article and pics describing another Selden rifle which was built in the 1860's - 1870's. The article describes the barrel as being a 3/4" 45 Caliber, 32" barrel made by Remington.
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