Future of Ontario Moose Hunting

Slooshark1

Slooshark1

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I'm just wondering if anyone has heard any news about making more changes to the hunt. This year was the first year in 27 years of hunting that I didn't buy a tag. In fact, my entire moose hunting group, didn't buy a license this year. We did hunt deer for 2 weeks, which was a lot of fun, but I would like to moose hunt again someday, hopefully with my kids. I think the whole system needs to be scrapped and they need to implement a new system from scratch that does a better job of managing the population but allows more opportunities to harvest an adult moose.
 
Slooshark1 said:
... they need to implement a new system from scratch that does a better job of managing the population but allows more opportunities to harvest an adult moose.
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Unfortunately there is no such thing... there can't be "more" opportunities too harvest adult moose, or else the population will suffer. What needs to happen is better tracking of populations by WMU and fairer distribution of available tags. The days of getting a bull tag every year may be behind us, but if we went to a "preference point" system, we might see a bull tag every three to five years (when it is your turn). It might require travelling to unfamiliar units a much further distance away... but with a "preference point" system, that goal is attainable. In this computer age, there is no reason that the preference point system couldn't be implemented immediately... turn a grade 9 computer science class loose on the project... done.
 
This has been already done in Colorado for years with Elk . There are better areas that people want to hunt in
because of higher game populations. So there are 1 - 5 point areas, which means you wait for 1-5 yrs. to get
a tag . Plus you do not need a buy a license each of those 1-5 yrs. waiting for your tag. There is some small
fee each yr. for that .
Basically you are standing in line & will get that tag in 5 yrs. @ the most. Our moose system leaves you waiting
for any amount of yrs. & maybe never getting one.
Meanwhile the ,,,,, "Unlicensed Hunters" kill them 24 hr. a day / 365 days a yr. . The government just stands
back & does nothing. ,,,,,,,,,,,, my 2 cents.
 
Reduce the number of wmu's, get rid of the calf hunt, give preference to larger groups and share data with indigenous groups/reserves to begin a new era of cooperation that recognizes the fact that lower moose populations affect everyone. Native over harvest is an issue that needs to be included in the wider conversation about moose management.

Unfortunately, the provincial gov't has prioritized the selling of licenses over anything else when it comes hunting.

Patrick
 
I'd personally love a priority point system. It lets you plan your trips out and you know that you're going to get a tag in a specific unit in a certain number of years. People will have to accept if they want a tag year or two they may have to hunt a harder to access unit.

I also think that they need to put an end to calf tags. If you shoot all the calves, there won't be any adults. I suspect a lot of yearlings get mistaken for calves each fall too.

Better resource management should trump opportunity. Without good management, there won't be any opportunity at all.
 
I'm in favour of the preference point system idea. But I don't think anythings going to change until we get rid of the Wynne government. When there's a change of government, we need to organize and pound on the new minister responsible until change happens.
 
9.3mauser said:
I'm in favour of the preference point system idea. But I don't think anythings going to change until we get rid of the Wynne government. When there's a change of government, we need to organize and pound on the new minister responsible until change happens.
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Yup... Wynne has gotta go... although... she is probably more open to bribery than Brown.
 
We didn't buy tags for 2017. The two pool system has to go.

Opportunities are slim so we got tired of giving an extra 55 bucks in tax money for nothing.

For 2018 the big changes MNRF seems to have on the front burner are changes to the whole licence administration - tags instead of seals, print your own etc but nothing really on the management side of things.

Will wait and see but after hunting moose for somewhat over 40 years I may have seen my last hunt in 2016. I'm not optimistic that anything will change significantly in the remainder of my hunting years.
 
This government will shutdown all licensed moose hunting one day. They will push ..............Subsistence hunting must come first.........
 
Cintax said:
I'd personally love a priority point system. It lets you plan your trips out and you know that you're going to get a tag in a specific unit in a certain number of years. People will have to accept if they want a tag year or two they may have to hunt a harder to access unit.
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This is what we have in Alberta and it generally operates as you suggested.

In WMUs with more hunter traffic (say adjacent to or near Edmonton or Calgary where easy access oil lease roads and short drives allow for convenient day trips for large numbers of hunters) it requires many more years of draw entry to be awarded certain tags (4-8 yrs or sometimes much more for certain animals ie. sheep and antelope). This is because of the volume of entries and limited tags.

Contrast that with much more remote areas in WMUs in northern Alberta. Our favourite location requires a 6 hour drive from Edmonton and then a 4 hour ATV ride to reach base camp. In that WMU, moose tags were available each year and have now changed to an every second year award, as entry has increased. The efforts made by serious hunters to access the remote areas provides for opportunities on different populations in shorter times, because the volume of entries is lower. Sometimes, notices are made that any given WMU is “undersubscribed” meaning hunters can subsequently buy excess tags that were not applied for that year.

The supply and demand for a limited number of tags in each WMU using a priority point system seems to distribute opportunities for certain big game animals decently. I am not able to comment with certainty on the population health, but one must expect the specifically limited number of tags in each WMU to be better management than general tags. Black bear and whitetail tags generally remain general tags, so hunters always have some opportunity each year, even in the “miss” years where your entry only increases priority. The alternating draw years and miss years are a happy balance.

One complication that has arisen is the controversy over how many tags in any given WMU should be allocated to resident hunters and guides/non-resident hunters. Lots of heated comments on either side of that one. No system is perfect but it seems to strike a balance.
 
My uncle lives in Alberta. I am working on my non-resident mule deer priority points right now. The unit we hunted in the past had a priority nine last year. I won't be going for that, but his friend has six sections where the draw is only a few years. It sounds like they only issue about 300 tags a year to non-residents. Non-residents can't even get antlerless mule deer tags (unless with an outfitter? I don't know). People act like those 300 tags is making the difference when they issue 10,000+ mule deer tags to residents and guides. The real problem is that people want to be able to kill monster mule deer with less than a one or two hour drive from Calgary and Edmonton. You can buy OTC antlered mule deer tags in mountain, foothills and boreal units.
 
Unfortunately,in Ontario,we're dealing with a Liberal government that's hell-bent on destroying everything they touch,especially,anything that has to do with hunting and firearms use that requires cognitive scientific thought and the OMNRF in particular. Quite clearly,they're idealogically and dogma driven. The more they try to "fix" something,the worse it gets.
 
Our region of BC has a system that works and everyone gets to hunt general bull season open for two weeks in remote areas and the remaining two months open for immature bulls 2 point or less and mature bulls which are either tripalm or 10 point on one antler. When populations are good success is good when populations are low success goes down but you get to hunt. Winter and wolf populations are the biggest issue our populations face along with hunting pressure in areas near urban areas. We have not had antlerless hunting for at least 20 years. Was a good year for moose hunters this year. Our elk and mule deer populations are similarly managed.
 
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When the MNR instituted the calf season in 1982 they said the reasoning behind it was the fact that calf mortality was around 50% so hunting calves shouldn't affect the requirement rate. (Rate at which population replaces itself) They also postulated that young bulls don't breed with older cows--as a general rule.

In the areas I hunt they were right--we had an increasing moose population from the 1980's through the early 2000's. we also had a lot of logging going on and resulting road access to make hunting easier.

Logging is less than 10% of what it was back then and road access has gone to hell. Areas I used to hunt from automobile are now completely inaccessible. Roads fall apart pretty fast when the loggers stop maintaining them.

The MNR as a ministry cannot negotiate with Native bands as the political powers that be will not allow it.

A point system for adult tags will work well for southern Ontario hunters but the local boys all hate that idea.
 
I'm 71 years old.
Last fall was the 1st time that I did not buy a Moose license.
Calf hunting was only 5 days.
Not worth it to me to pay for a 5 day licence.
The natives are killing so many moose that there is virtually nothing left in my area.
We are being laughed at.
The wolves are not helping either.[ but I don't blame them].
If the government can't make laws so that all can hunt.
Maybe it is time that we break the laws.
I'm so mad that my blood is boiling.
I will probably never get another tag as long as I live.
Some people say that the Natives don't kill to many Moose.
While I'm hunting Bears in the Spring and the Fall.
I meet Natives and they laugh at me, They are Hunting Moose.
And I find Moose kills, [gut Piles], many in the middle of the road.
 
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My opinion surely won't be popular but I would think that decades of over the counter calf hunting and adult cow hunting by license purchasing hunters has had just as bad of an effect on moose populations as unregulated aboriginal hunting.

I have spent a fair bit of time both occupationally and recreationally traipsing around boreal regions in ON, AB and BC and I just don't see a lot of evidence to corroborate the story that aboriginal hunting is wiping out moose. It's part of the puzzle, no doubt and managing that part of the equation will be necessary for having healthy moose numbers in the future.... there's just a number of other variables to consider rather than bearing down on one..... predators having won the hearts of a large part of the country, road density, forest management, licensed hunting, 4x4 and ATV's becoming an almost household item, rising human population, highway collision.

Lots to think about...
 
Big Jon said:
My opinion surely won't be popular but I would think that decades of over the counter calf hunting and adult cow hunting by license purchasing hunters has had just as bad of an effect on moose populations as unregulated aboriginal hunting.
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I absolutely agree with you. I've never subscribed to the theory that half of the calves die over winter so we might as well hunt them. The more calves and cows you take out of a population, the less population there will be. This is an irrefutable fact that applies to all animals.


Big Jon said:
I have spent a fair bit of time both occupationally and recreationally traipsing around boreal regions in ON, AB and BC and I just don't see a lot of evidence to corroborate the story that aboriginal hunting is wiping out moose. It's part of the puzzle, no doubt and managing that part of the equation will be necessary for having healthy moose numbers in the future.... there's just a number of other variables to consider rather than bearing down on one..... predators having won the hearts of a large part of the country, road density, forest management, licensed hunting, 4x4 and ATV's becoming an almost household item, rising human population, highway collision.
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Personally, I don't believe in hunting calves as such when I drew a calf tag, I didn't hunt. Simple as that. People like to blame aboriginals because it is easy. I'm not saying I agree with being able to take game out of season or with unlimited quantity, in fact, I completely disagree with that. If you kill a pregnant cow in the spring, you have killed two moose plus all the potential future moose from that cows loins. Seasons should absolutely be adhered to, and it is a selfish person who thinks otherwise.

There is a lot of factors and I suspect habitat and increased road access are big ones too.

Big Jon said:
Lots to think about...
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Indeed.
 
Trimmer 905 said:
Unfortunately,in Ontario,we're dealing with a Liberal government that's hell-bent on destroying everything they touch,especially,anything that has to do with hunting and firearms use that requires cognitive scientific thought and the OMNRF in particular. Quite clearly,they're idealogically and dogma driven. The more they try to "fix" something,the worse it gets.
Click to expand...

Too bad it's so messed up. I bet you're looking forward to the next election.
 
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