Is this a smart beginner move?

[Mystic Precision]

I can do that...

Now get back to the range and get that barrel dialed in... Enjoy

Jerry

 

[Mr_Mike]

I would go with something that has significant aftermarket support, like the Remington 700 and to a lesser degree Tikka/Savage. Since you are a confessed beginner, it may take you a couple of evolutions of your rifle until you find something you really like. A highly customizable action will make this very easy. While there are products out for the RPR, you are limited by the nature of the design.

Reloading will get you the most benefit regardless of the rifle you get. Consider going with a slightly cheaper rifle (not glass, don't skimp there!) and picking up reloading. Starting with a couple of boxes of factory ammo is an easy way to start and leaves you with ready to use brass.

agree if it was my money to spend i'd go tikka ctr 24" in 6.5 and all out on the optic. both mdt and cadex have options for tikka if you have to go that route.

 

[Sakoman .308]

That looks like a fine rifle. Please keep us posted on how you do.

 

[adamg]

As seen on 8541 Tactical!

 

[Major Sights]

If you exclude scope and mount, this was an exactly 1600$ budget rifle, including 20 MOA rail, muzzle brake, magazine, bipod, chassis, barreled action.
It's called savage 10TR and SFRC sells them cheap, 24'' 5R 1:10 twist rifling.
Which would leave you 2400$ for optics.
Yes .308, and not 6.5.
Myself am also shooting rifle for the first time this year, and really appreciate .308 for learning.

EDIT : Forgot to mention it involves selling factory rail, stock, and factory 10 round magazine.
Also had found a NIB harris swivel 6-9, and NIB ATRS 20 moa rail on the EE, which contributes to the savings

Going to have to echo Marty and suggest a Savage 10tr, though I may be biased as I just love a good savage rifle (I live about 5 minutes away from one of their factories), and I adore the .308 cartridge. I picked the rifle up cheap, sold the OEM stock, bottom metal, magazine and put that towards a lightly used MDT HS3 chassis and butstock. Added a Canadian Spatha Tactical muzzle brake and used an old Vortex Crossfire 6-16x50. It was great, and because I have used Vortex to great success I went and sold another toy I wasn't using, and picked up a new Vortex PST GenII 5-25x50 FFP and a American Defense Manufacturing QD 30MOA one piece scope mount. Been loving it to death since, my only regret is that I don't get out enough to shoot it, but it did go hunting with me!

 

[curseyou]

One thing OP never clarified about the type of shooting. PRS style or bench, or prone? Do you want a repeater, or will a single shot do?

You get a lot of rifle w something like a savage 12.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12LRP

If you are going for a buy it for life rifle, than savage rebarreling is a nice feature to have. The target accutrigger and hs stock are competitive out of the box. You need a cheek riser and some time smoothing out the action and tiggity-boo.

Then get an egw steel picatinny rail some steel rings and a good scope. Scope wise the world has changed a lot recently. To your advantage. Glass wise the cheaper options have really caught up in quality. 10 years ago, colouring, edge dispersion, overall brightness left two choices. The best and the rest. Today even $700 scopes have glass that is sufficiently close to my S&B. The differences are getting smaller every year. There has never been as great a time as now for scope shopping. With a 6.5CR 1k distance is a given; In addition to great glass w/ side parralax that are common, you should focus on turret tracking and magnification.

Also, if you havent already, check out you tube sniper 101. Lots of winter to study it. It will prep you for free to get the most out of any courses you take.

Jerry's advice on a donor 700 with new barrel is also an awesome option. 700 actions are good and smooth, but unlike the savage, some benefit from blueprinting because the 1 piece bolt and action often but not always need truing. Savage solved these problems with a cheap to make floating bolt and barrel nut. Better accuracy, but the bolt will never be as smooth. Aftermarket support for rem and sav are about the same now.

6.5 CR has way better performance than .308 Win at the expense of barrel life. 2-4k rounds vs 5-8k rounds.

Happy shopping. Lots of good choices.

 

[8 ball]

Huh! A custom tactical Rem 783. Now I've seen everything! Thanks for sharing.

While you are developing a game plan, try and get behind as many different stocks and chassis to see what feels and fits YOU. Although I can offer various chassis options, my personal tastes bring me to more old school stocks. This is not a right or wrong thing... it's a, "yeah, this fits me" thing.

Once you figure out what the "clothing" should be, the barreled action is a simple decision based on your personal tastes and preferences. There are so many options that all work so this is more an eeenie meenie thing then barreled action A is way better then barreled action B.

If there are any competition now or in the future, that can help narrow down options either because they restrict what you can use or there are better 'mousetraps'.

Unfortunately, current manf factory rifles are hit and miss wrt to performance. Barrels are all over the map with some working great and some stinking. For the budget you are suggesting, I would just start with a donor, put on a match barrel and furniture to suit. Start from the beginning with something that is going to do what you want instead of testing, fixing and replacing as needed. .

View attachment 119757

My Rem 783 with a McGowen prefit.. Boyds pro varmint stock modified for the CDI DBM. Tuned factory trigger, replace bolt knob and firing pin spring. Otherwise, stock action. The rifle is under your $2k budget

View attachment 119758

Sporting a CarbonSix prefit... this one over your budget but not by much.

View attachment 119760

How well can they shoot? here is a test group at 250yds in light gusty winds with the CS barrel, Berger 140gr VLDs... only have a 16X scope on so the aiming error is larger then when using my 32X target scopes. Both barrels have shown the capacity to shoot in the 1/4 to 1/3 min range at 250 to 280yds.

sub MOA out to 1450yds....

If you want to shoot LR, barrels matter. For what it costs to develop a load to find out the barrel is subpar THEN fix it... may as well start with a good barrel and spend less time testing and more time having fun going LR.

Same with optics. No doubt that the more you spend (to a point), the better the product. In the $2k budget, there are a number of really nice products with more coming out each quarter. Do you need to spend that much? If you want to put more funds towards reloading and actually using the rifle, there are some great options sub $1k that have features and function to do the job.

YMMV.

Jerry

 

[MartyK2500]

Going to have to echo Marty and suggest a Savage 10tr, though I may be biased as I just love a good savage rifle (I live about 5 minutes away from one of their factories), and I adore the .308 cartridge. I picked the rifle up cheap, sold the OEM stock, bottom metal, magazine and put that towards a lightly used MDT HS3 chassis and butstock. Added a Canadian Spatha Tactical muzzle brake and used an old Vortex Crossfire 6-16x50. It was great, and because I have used Vortex to great success I went and sold another toy I wasn't using, and picked up a new Vortex PST GenII 5-25x50 FFP and a American Defense Manufacturing QD 30MOA one piece scope mount. Been loving it to death since, my only regret is that I don't get out enough to shoot it, but it did go hunting with me!

Nice Rifle!
Are savage producing 10TRs in Ontario?
If yes i just got to love the platform, another CDN manufacturer on the build list!
I almost had got the HS3 myself, at moment of purchased they had just annonced ESS, and decided to wait for it for the extra modularity.

That looks like a fine rifle. Please keep us posted on how you do.

Thanks.
Shot 1200 rounds in 2017.
With all the load development, reload progress, minimal barrel cleaning disturbance, proper technique (this one i am only hoping as i have no confirmation, shot ISSF pistol in the past, i take my breathing and trigger squeeze from there),
I average 0.6MOA 5 shot groups when i go to the range.

Had best groups 0.4, my largest ones are currently 3/4moa, with my load.
I really wished i could of done a target, 5 groups of 5 shots, all under 1/2 moa, seems impossible.
I had high hopes since lands are ultra short (1200 rounds later, touching lands at 2.750''OAL with 175 SMKs', average measurment as my adjustments are done with comparator)
But reality is, i can't seem to squeeze more out of it, so i ordered a new barrel from mystic precision, and see if i can keep it all under 1/2moa

 

[Mystic Precision]

Just finished another Rem 783 in 223 Rem. MDT LSS chassis with skeletonised stock



McGowen prefit



Test loads at 250yds using Berger 60gr Varmint... C and D are just slightly different powder charge. Just 3rds groups to confirm function and performance. I think the new owner will be happy.

Jerry

 

[J996]

C'mon Jerry, not only did you barely graze the target, but three rounds is not a group!

 

[Mystic Precision]

C'mon Jerry, not only did you barely graze the target, but three rounds is not a group!

I did a run up of charges just to check min max for the customer. C and D were shot back to back... overlay the groups.

All 6 shots would be around 3/4"... the 5rds without that high shot in D would be around 1/2". Good enough for testing function of the rifle me thinks.

The customer can do the real load work up as desired...

Jerry

 

[MartyK2500]

Does the rem 783 have a floating bolt head like savage?
Now that MDT has gone on board with this model, and with the possibility of prefit user friendly easy change barrels, it feels like a viable platform.
I'm already set up with Savage 10TR and do not need a 783, but the 783 may slowly become popular like the savage is slowly becoming popular, with a few years in advance.

 

[SteveB]

Yes, it does. It will become more popular as people become more and more aware of the advantages it offers, same as the Savage. Jerry alerted me to the potential and precision of the action first but several gunsmiths independently have also reinforced that first opinion. It is getting attention. As it does then the aftermarket will start up. Now this chassis has become available and others will also. This is the same thing that happened to Savage. In the beginning of F-Class a decade ago, the idea of using a Stevens/Savage action was laughed at and people like Jerry were really ridiculed similar to what has happened to Jerry about the 783. Deja Vu!! In the last really big (400+ shooters) US match I was at this year, the majority of the actions in F-TR and a lot in F-Open were Savage.

The biggest detractors of using actions like the Savage and 783 are people with a vested interest in using/building fancy actions because they spell more profit for these people. There is very little profit for these companies selling a Savage or 783 action and prefit barrels so anytime the subject of actions and accessories come up they fight the use of the cheaper actions. This is what happened years ago with the Savage and has been happening to the 783. The advantage I see with the 783 is that it isn't as butt ugly as the Savage and doesn't use the same gas blocking system which is a vulnerable problem with the Savage action.

There is no real advantage using a custom fancy action over a cheaper Savage/783. A bolt action is a bolt action as long as it follows the Rem clone rough dimensions. There is everything you need for the 783 now with more and more coming on the market. Savage is the just a few years ahead.

 

[MartyK2500]

So far, from the few gunsmiths i have spoken to, they kinda look down on my savage 10TR.
They would much prefer to true the bolt to receiver and spin a barrel of their own. (ie fixed rem 700 bolt-receiver)
It is in their own interest afterall, and am no competition shooter, so actions like defiance are irrevelant to me at the moment.

Just know, that my factory savage pipe and tube, can consistently give me 06.-0.7 moa with the occasionnal/regular 0.4-0.5 moa surprise, always 5 shot groups btw.

Ordered the IBI barrel from Jerry, which i can change myself, huge bonus.
Can't wait to see the savage action potential then.

 

[curseyou]

I think the advantage of a non-floating bolt head is that you get more surface that is aligned with the bolt, leading to smooth working the bolt. The floating bolt head, means that the head can torque out of alignment with the bolt body as the action is being worked. This is the trade between Sav accuracy, and rem smoothness. You can true a Rem to have both, but the save, while cheaply accurate, can never be as smooth as a remington.

The 783 is just stealing sav's brilliance because so much of the world moved to their .5 moa rifles for under 1k.

The barrel nut is superior design. Lots of advantage, no disadvantage. Anyone who doesn't do it is a poo poo head. Rem/age should be mandatory on all remmy rifles new and old. 783 finally catches up to savage due to losing so much market share.
The floating bolt head is a cost saving proceedure that should be standard on all cheap rifles. Makes 'em cheap, but accurate as phuk. Sacrifices smoothness, but what do you want for cheap?
The accutrigger is a great design, and inexpensive. But there are many great designs out that are as good or better, but never as cheap. Solid advantage to Savage. DIY playground, makes it easy to do a proper trigger job. I'm at a very clean 1lb 10oz on the 3-5lb accutrigger by simply cleaning surfaces with Arkansas stones and replacing the spring with 2 stainless springs. No creep, ultra low overtravel and light and consistent and reliable.

 

[SteveB]

"The floating bolt head is a cost saving procedure that should be standard on all cheap rifles. Makes 'em cheap, but accurate as phuk. Sacrifices smoothness, but what do you want for cheap?"

This statement above is in error. The floating bolt head actually aligns the case into the chamber better and increases the accuracy potential. This is why the Savage can be such an accurate action given a good barrel. However, this is a byproduct of the design for fast assembly. It has this advantage and the advantage of allowing for prefit barrels.

Since we are running out of gunsmiths who understand how to assemble rifles properly for precise shooting then it is a good option for shooters who burn out a lot of barrels. For a game like PRS where the accuracy requirements aren't as precise as Benchrest or F-Class it is a great option. However, the companies involved in this game hate these type of actions for that reason.

I personally don't use the Savage action because of the issue involving the pressure containment of the bolt gas blocking design and the fact I don't like the looks of it but the 783 really interests me because for me it looks nicer and it has a better gas bleed system than the Savage.

 

[SteveB]

Marty

What you are saying about gunsmith's preferring to do this is very true. However, very few actually can do it well. I have ordered very many match rifles from a large number of smith's over the years and very few will give you back a rifle that is perfect. I have had to have many match rifles fixed after a build from a "name" and "quality" gunsmith. I just pulled apart a rifle to install a new barrel and the smith had machined the wrong diameter threads on the previous barrel. it shot fantastic but the barrel was just worn.

I feel the prefit idea is a good one because it appears to give very good results from the rifles I have seen and it allows you to change barrels very fast compared to waiting for a gunsmith to machine the new barrel for you. When you are going through as many barrels as I do then this is very attractive.

 

[MartyK2500]

Myself, since i don't compete, and currently use 308, i expect my barrels to last 3 years.
If ever i feel the need for competing, and use something quicker than burns barrels faster, not an issue.
Self changing barrels will be quite nice.
Buy first barrel, self install, once installed order 2nd barrel immediately, as soon as 1st one burns you can have a new one in within a 24 hours timing window, no downtime.

I do compete with pistols though, and always get custom 1911s up and running.
I have yet to find a smith than is quick and perfectionnist, so either my barrels don't end up locking as tight as i'd wish, or i'm out for a few weeks/months.
So i do have experienced the pains of waiting for smiths (3x .40SW and 1x9mm 1911 bushing to bull conversions)

 

[rkm456]

I think the advantage of a non-floating bolt head is that you get more surface that is aligned with the bolt, leading to smooth working the bolt. The floating bolt head, means that the head can torque out of alignment with the bolt body as the action is being worked. This is the trade between Sav accuracy, and rem smoothness. You can true a Rem to have both, but the save, while cheaply accurate, can never be as smooth as a remington.

Respectfully disagree. I'd agree that the smoothness of the Savage's is somewhat inconsistent, but if you find a good one it's as smooth (or better) than any other offering. In my personal experience, Ruger's are the worst.