Norinco Glock?! Say it ain't so!

VictoriousSecret said:
If the lifespan of the patent only lasts for 20 years or so, it seems like a little short given the amount of R&D that goes into a firearm. If it takes a bigger investment then I think the patent holder is entitled to make a profit from it. If it is that easy I would assume there are lot more manufacturers making firearms than it is now.

I'm a little skeptical about Norinco being a defense industry firm from China.
Click to expand...

20 years is plenty of time to make money on your design before you move onto the next thing. Also, other companies wanting to copy your design still need to do all the work that goes into making a functional copy (not to mention capital investments on tooling ect), all to build a knock-off of a 20+ year old product.

As for Norinco, Wiki says they employ 276 000 employees, and build everything from firearms to tanks to anti-missile systems. I tried going to their website, but one I don't read chinese, and two Chrome gave me a malware warning every time I clicked on anything, so I'm gonna leave that one alone...
 
edgy said:
Knockoffs,,so fake, phoney, something pretending to be something it's not?
Like a sport shooter talking to all the other sport shooters like he is some kind of operator with a vast amount of knowledge gleaned from years of experience, when in reality he is a sport shooter with " book learnins"
Gotcha
Click to expand...

I thought we had Larry Vickers' Canadian cousin here on CGN, sharing all his decades of operator experience and industry work experience here at no charge.
 
Suther said:
20 years is plenty of time to make money on your design before you move onto the next thing. Also, other companies wanting to copy your design still need to do all the work that goes into making a functional copy (not to mention capital investments on tooling ect), all to build a knock-off of a 20+ year old product.

As for Norinco, Wiki says they employ 276 000 employees, and build everything from firearms to tanks to anti-missile systems. I tried going to their website, but one I don't read chinese, and two Chrome gave me a malware warning every time I clicked on anything, so I'm gonna leave that one alone...
Click to expand...

If I could apply the mentality of buying and owning a guitar, I kinda get it. There are manufacturers making copies of Les Paul or PRS for fraction of the original. They don't give you the same tone wood and pickups but the dimensions are similar. Some people prefer the real thing some people prefer the replica but it's the sentimental connection to the real thing that makes the decision sometimes.
 
I have an excellent DA 1911 Commander in .45 Acp. It just made sense, got to try out the 1911 commander and I saved 500 compared to the other 1911 I was looking at. In the process found out I love 1911's and I'm happy. The value is there.

That said I don't think the value will be there for Norc Glock-offs. Not when you could buy a S&W M&P9 for ~500, instead of Norinco's first attempt at a glock. I'll stick with Gaston on this one.
 
VictoriousSecret said:
If I could apply the mentality of buying and owning a guitar, I kinda get it. There are manufacturers making copies of Les Paul or PRS for fraction of the original. They don't give you the same tone wood and pickups but the dimensions are similar. Some people prefer the real thing some people prefer the replica but it's the sentimental connection to the real thing that makes the decision sometimes.
Click to expand...

Exactly. No clone, even the girsan and Tarus beretta clones, that are made on beretta tooling, will be exactly the same as the original.

Also, as you mention many people want the original. Glocks sell so good because they have name recognition. If Ruger brought out a visually perfect clone of the glock, many people would still buy the glock even if it was significantly more expensive strictly because its "the real deal".

Ubermeier said:
I have an excellent DA 1911 Commander in .45 Acp. It just made sense, got to try out the 1911 commander and I saved 500 compared to the other 1911 I was looking at. In the process found out I love 1911's and I'm happy. The value is there.

That said I don't think the value will be there for Norc Glock-offs. Not when you could buy a S&W M&P9 for ~500, instead of Norinco's first attempt at a glock. I'll stick with Gaston on this one.
Click to expand...

Nevermind the M&P, you can get things like the Diamondback DBFS9 or the Girsan striker fired pistols for $400 or less. I like Norinco clones of things like sigs, that would cost you two or three times as much but I'm not sure there is much of a market for a glock clone considering how packed the striker fired pistol segment is these days.
 
To me, the point is why support Chinese products in the first place. Good or bad, the history of industrial espionage, copyright and trademark infringement, environmental damage, human rights abuse, etc etc would all be good reasons to boycott their crap. It's hard to do but wherever I can I avoid buying anything from China. All the trade with China has done is made them rich to buy our real estate and companies, build their military, and continue their stated goal of world domination. Too extreme, maybe, but I believe history will show that what we have done is a huge mistake based on our greed and living the Walmart life.
 
Chas59 said:
To me, the point is why support Chinese products in the first place. Good or bad, the history of industrial espionage, copyright and trademark infringement, environmental damage, human rights abuse, etc etc would all be good reasons to boycott their crap. It's hard to do but wherever I can I avoid buying anything from China. All the trade with China has done is made them rich to buy our real estate and companies, build their military, and continue their stated goal of world domination. Too extreme, maybe, but I believe history will show that what we have done is a huge mistake based on our greed and living the Walmart life.
Click to expand...

I can't agree more.
 
Chas59 said:
To me, the point is why support Chinese products in the first place. Good or bad, the history of industrial espionage, copyright and trademark infringement, environmental damage, human rights abuse, etc etc would all be good reasons to boycott their crap. It's hard to do but wherever I can I avoid buying anything from China. All the trade with China has done is made them rich to buy our real estate and companies, build their military, and continue their stated goal of world domination. Too extreme, maybe, but I believe history will show that what we have done is a huge mistake based on our greed and living the Walmart life.
Click to expand...

It has also made a lot of things more affordable for us. Trade benefits both parties, if it didn't, both parties wouldn't agree to trade in the first place.
 
Considering the price of some current Norinco products, I don't these would sell that well. Doesn't help that China keeps manipulating its currency.
 
Hitzy said:
Ah yes...dirt poor 3rd world ####holes and terrorists buy their military hardware from China. Hardly a glowing endorsement of the quality of their gear.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ing-strong-so-why-arent-chinese-weapons-17746
Click to expand...

Probably speaks to the manufacturing desire of 1st World countries coupled with trade relations with the primary military exporters. Canada has a buy first policy and some kind of reciprocal arrangement with the US. I think assuming Norinco products represent the height of Chinese military hardware manufacturing prowess would be a huge mistake.

Take Care

Bob
 
Hitzy said:
Ah yes...dirt poor 3rd world ####holes and terrorists buy their military hardware from China. Hardly a glowing endorsement of the quality of their gear.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ing-strong-so-why-arent-chinese-weapons-17746
Click to expand...

The glowing endorsement was US sanctions for their trade in missile technologies to Iran. May not be the absolute best but certainly good enough to worry the West it seems.

Their small share of global markets has more to do with politics and economics than quality. When the Americans hand out billions in military aid it has to be spent on American equipment. Same with every other country. And who is going to turn down free or heavily subsidized equipment? As the Chinese begin to become more directly involved financially in countries of interest, expect to see their foreign market share increase.

Making small arms is stone age simple. Norinco ' s stuff, for the most part, functions well for the price and intended market. Now, will I buy one? Not a chance, but that's also true of Glocks.
 
Canuck44 said:
Probably speaks to the manufacturing desire of 1st World countries coupled with trade relations with the primary military exporters. Canada has a buy first policy and some kind of reciprocal arrangement with the US. I think assuming Norinco products represent the height of Chinese military hardware manufacturing prowess would be a huge mistake.

Take Care

Bob
Click to expand...

The article addressed the Chinese high end modern heavy kit... basically "hobby grade" junk in need of upgrades out of the box.
Few countries are lining up to buy other Chinese weapons systems, or, if they are, they’re throwing out Chinese parts and replacing them with Western systems. This is because China’s defense industry is still very weak when it comes to key technologies like jet engines and electronics. A 2013 New York Times article, for example, noted that Algeria acquired corvettes from China but subsequently outfitted them with French radar and communications gear. Pakistani JF-17 jets use a Russian engine, while Thailand turned to Saab of Sweden to upgrade its Chinese-built frigates.
Click to expand...
 
I guess it would make sense for China (Norinco) to clone the best semi-auto pistol design in existence... and perhaps even to outfit their own PLA troops with it down the road? Manufacturing a Glock clone on a large scale is probably much cheaper than a 1911 or other steel frame designs. It is also cheaper than developing and testing new designs. The Glock is great because it was a solid design from the start and it had time to be perfected to a 100% reliability point. Copying it requires minimal skill and time.

If the metallurgy of the steel components is good, the parts are made like the originals and the polymer for the frame is of comparable grade, there's absolutely no reason why this "clone" would be any worse than an Austrian-made Glock in any practical terms. Sure, not the same bragging rights... but besides that?


Interesting... :)
 
Still alive said:
Not familiar with copyright laws re: firearms.

Can anyone tell me why eastern bloc countries can go about making clones of SIGs, Berettas, BHPs, ARs and now Glocks?

I understand the 1911 lost its patent due to the age of the design but the above guns are still relatively new.
Click to expand...
Copyright is only for text, film, etc. This would be covered under a utility patent, or a design patent, or even stronger, but only in the US, trade dress. I doubt any apply any longer
 
Still alive said:
Not familiar with copyright laws re: firearms.

Can anyone tell me why eastern bloc countries can go about making clones of SIGs, Berettas, BHPs, ARs and now Glocks?

I understand the 1911 lost its patent due to the age of the design but the above guns are still relatively new.
Click to expand...

Patents expire after 20 years. Anyone can freely make clones of the product after that. Most of the ones you mentioned are from the 70s. BHP relatively new? It came out in the 30s.

It’s the same thing US manufacturers do. Otherwise you’d only be able to buy 1911s an AR15s from Colt.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom