Savage 340 in 30-30 and Spitzer Bullets?

[Fox]

Anyone load the Savage 340 30-30 with spitzer bullets?

I have noted that the FTX bullet for the 30-30 is pretty long, so why not run a 150 or 165gr of similar length in this bolt action. The main reason would be to get a better bullet than an FTX and still have the better BC, not to drive it faster just to have more options. Please do not suggest buying a different gun, not an option we will be looking at for now.

My thought was a 150 or 165gr Partition, they open up just fine at 1800fps and great at 2300 fps, so with a 165gr at 2350 fps with LeverRevolution powder it would open up fine out to 300ish yards and at 2500fps with a 150gr would open up to around 350ish yards.

I know these are book numbers and not on a cronograph but the 170gr RN partition will give you that same velocity only to about 250 yards.

I know I know, trying to get more velocity and energy out of a 30-30 but it is all about efficiency and pointed bullets can do a lot more than flat ones, even holding energy at 100 yards.

 

[Ganderite]

Sure. A 150 partition would work dandy.

The nose section is fairly soft and should expand well.

And you can practice with 147 gr FMJs, too.

 

[Fox]

Sure. A 150 partition would work dandy.

And you can practice with 147 gr FMJs, too.

I would think that the lower starter load of the 160gr FTX would be a good start then with a 150gr partition, just because of the extra depth into the case, then work up watching for pressure signs and velocity, get it to close to what the book numbers for the 150gr with that powder would run assuming no pressure signs. I know that even though this is a bolt action you cannot push this action.

 

[257Roberts]

One thing that I have an issue with is COL.
The magazine length is too short to really take advantage with the pointed bullets.
With the length of the throat in my CIL 830 I could seat a 150 gr way out past the length of the magazine.

David

 

[Fox]

One thing that I have an issue with is COL.
The magazine length is too short to really take advantage with the pointed bullets.
With the length of the throat in my CIL 830 I could seat a 150 gr way out past the length of the magazine.

David

Ya, it would be like anything else, set the COL to the magazine and make sure it chambers, I do not expect to get a long 150gr in there but the Partition and a couple other flat base bullets are shorter than the 160gr FTX, so essentially we should be able to load a bullet that holds together for heavier game and not lose the velocity like the flat nose 150 or 170gr.

 

[bearhunter]

I really like my 340 chambered in 30-30 Win. The main reason I like it is because it's a lot stronger than just about any lever action rifle out there other than the 99 Savage or a BLR (never seen one in 30-30).

This means the owner can hand load his cartridges to higher velocities to extend the range of this fine little cartridge. I was loading pointy bullets in mine until it dawned on me that at the ranges the loads were suitable for there wouldn't be any appreciable difference in velocity and maybe even less in accuracy. Now, I stick with flat base/round or flat nosed bullets. This leaves substantially more room in the case for my powder of choice. I don't have a lever action chambered in 30-30Win so having these loads around isn't a problem but I still mark the box with a caution label.

I like what you're doing though. This little cartridge, like a lot of other old timers out there is far more capable in strong actions than they are given credit for. The only real safety issue may be the case itself.

 

[Fox]

I really like my 340 chambered in 30-30 Win. The main reason I like it is because it's a lot stronger than just about any lever action rifle out there other than the 99 Savage or a BLR (never seen one in 30-30).

This means the owner can hand load his cartridges to higher velocities to extend the range of this fine little cartridge. I was loading pointy bullets in mine until it dawned on me that at the ranges the loads were suitable for there wouldn't be any appreciable difference in velocity and maybe even less in accuracy. Now, I stick with flat base/round or flat nosed bullets. This leaves substantially more room in the case for my powder of choice. I don't have a lever action chambered in 30-30Win so having these loads around isn't a problem but I still mark the box with a caution label.

I like what you're doing though. This little cartridge, like a lot of other old timers out there is far more capable in strong actions than they are given credit for. The only real safety issue may be the case itself.

It is mainly the horrible BC of the bullets, the 30-30 loses so much velocity and therefore energy due to the horrible amount of drag in the air, plus the bullet selection in round nose sucks, so you are stuck with whatever they still make. It is fine for deer, anything they make will kill a deer but this is my wife's gun and it will be her only big game gun for the foreseeable future, therefore options for anything larger than deer and even deer at off angles really need to be considered. I realized that we are running out of the FTX Hornady ammo and I already have all the stuff to reload 30-30, so why not develop a load for her rifle as the bullets are essentially the same cost as the 160gr FTX. I am also planning to load 110gr Vmax for that rifle for coyotes. She is short and needs a short LOP but for how much she shoots I am not going out and getting a youth gun. If I can build up a budget for a 340 in 222 Rem I will go that route for a varmint gun, one rifle for her to know like the back of her hand.

 

[fraserdw]

340 action is short, very short. You really can't get too crazy in terms of 30-30 bullet in length or bullet size greater than the original soft point round nose or much greater than the pressures of the original. 788 is a better action for 30-30 experiments.

 

[Fox]

340 action is short, very short. You really can't get too crazy in terms of 30-30 bullet in length or bullet size greater than the original soft point round nose or much greater than the pressures of the original. 788 is a better action for 30-30 experiments.

I do not believe that you read any of my posts at all, to summarize we are not overloading it, shooting a short bullet and not buying a different gun.

 

[jethunter]

Ya, it would be like anything else, set the COL to the magazine and make sure it chambers, I do not expect to get a long 150gr in there but the Partition and a couple other flat base bullets are shorter than the 160gr FTX, so essentially we should be able to load a bullet that holds together for heavier game and not lose the velocity like the flat nose 150 or 170gr.

Could also try a Sierra Pro Hunter bullet. It is a flat base and should work well on heavier game at 30-30 velocities.

 

[300_savage]

I've loaded Sierra spt's 125 &150gr and had good accuracy out of a NEF handing rifle, also Hornaday 130 gr flat base gave good accuracy, and should open well at 30-30 velocities ( I didn't test them on game ). I've tried 150 sst's as well but couldn't get decent groups, probably too long a bullet. The 150 gr win pp spire point would be a good candidate to try as well, flat base, quite a bit of exposed lead & opens pretty good at low velocity.

 

[bearhunter]

Fox, the beauty of the 340 is that, as you've already pointed out, it lets you hand load pointy bullets in the 150 grain or even lighter weights at higher velocities.

IMHO the drag difference at usable ranges is minimal to the point of not being of any real concern in real life circumstances between the flat nose and SP bullets.

I have also went down to the 123-125-130 grain bullets to get velocities up. The lighter bullets bleed off velocities a bit faster but do increase ranges quite a bit over the heavier 165+ weight offerings. They also allow the use of faster powders in greater volumes. The difference is substantial and the Deer I've taken with them don't seem to know the bullets are lighter. Mind you, I've never recovered any of them.

One other thing, if you're limiting your loads to those in the hand loading manuals it's unlikely they suggest or list any loads that would be appropriate for the increased strength of the 340/Ruger #1 or even the break action single shot rifles available. I believe some manuals differentiate between the 94 and Marlin actions but don't recall which.

The 340 opens up a whole different set of parameters to the 30-30. CAREFULLY do some experimentation. I've settled on 150grn flat nose bullets because I've got close to a thousand of them, which I picked up 35 years ago when a local Marshall Wells store closed up. The price is still on the CIL boxes $3 and I believe they were 50% off that price. There were close to 5000 bullets in that batch. Still, the 150 grain weight seems to be the optimal choice IMHO.

I've taken Moose/Deer/Black Bears and a couple of dozen Coyotes with my 340 and it shows the wear and tear. Light, handy, easy to shoulder and accurate with enough oomph to do the job for most of the requirements I hunt. I don't use this rifle much anymore because I have other likes at this point. This post is urging me to pull it out of the safe again for some fun. I can fully understand why you like the rifle and are trying to wring everything you can out of it. When Savage first introduced the 340 a lot of people curled up their noses. Same thing with the Remington 788. All sorts of BS about inferior locking up systems etc.

The rifles have a proven track record for reliability and accuracy if their handlers are up to their capabilities.

 

[Ganderite]

It is mainly the horrible BC of the bullets, the 30-30 loses so much velocity and therefore energy due to the horrible amount of drag in the air, plus the bullet selection in round nose sucks, so you are stuck with whatever they still make. It is fine for deer, anything they make will kill a deer but this is my wife's gun and it will be her only big game gun for the foreseeable future, therefore options for anything larger than deer and even deer at off angles really need to be considered. I realized that we are running out of the FTX Hornady ammo and I already have all the stuff to reload 30-30, so why not develop a load for her rifle as the bullets are essentially the same cost as the 160gr FTX. I am also planning to load 110gr Vmax for that rifle for coyotes. She is short and needs a short LOP but for how much she shoots I am not going out and getting a youth gun. If I can build up a budget for a 340 in 222 Rem I will go that route for a varmint gun, one rifle for her to know like the back of her hand.

My grandfather shot 50+ moose with his 30-30, using factory (CIL) softpoint ammo. Only one required a second shot.

The 30-30 has the power to kill a moose, so long as the shot is through the boiler room. Your rifle is accurate enough and soft enough on recoil for her to get proficient. With any big game, and especially with things as big as a moose, shot placement is even more important.

The 150 Partition will give you the expansion and penetration you need, with better ballistics.

 

[Fox]

My grandfather shot 50+ moose with his 30-30, using factory (CIL) softpoint ammo. Only one required a second shot.

The 30-30 has the power to kill a moose, so long as the shot is through the boiler room. Your rifle is accurate enough and soft enough on recoil for her to get proficient. With any big game, and especially with things as big as a moose, shot placement is even more important.

The 150 Partition will give you the expansion and penetration you need, with better ballistics.

That is exactly it, I have a win 94 and 50+ 150gr SP bullets, I plan to load that or the FTX for my gun as anything larger than deer I have other options with heavier recoil. The big key is the partition bullet and other more ideal bullets, something bonded, just a flat base to keep the length down.

I know the 30-30 has dropped tons of moose, you need to keep it in a little closer and hit it in the boiler room, no real concern there, but with a spire point I can squeak out that little bit less drop and hold that actually significant velocity increase.

This is the length list I am going off of, probably wait to see what I can find in quantity at a gun show, that is how I ended up with 100 200gr .308 partitions and 200 220gr partitions for use in a 30-06 we just want to load heavy for, because we can.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml

I know, these are just book numbers, but comparing 150gr RN vs SP from Hornady at 300 yards the SP holds 400fps and 400ft lbs of energy as well as 8in less drop with identical muzzle velocities. This will give that little bit further point blank range for deer and hold just that much more energy for bear and moose. Given, at 100 yards they are closer the SP is still just under 200fps faster and 250ft lbs of energy more, just at that close range.

I do not want to push the gun, keep it in a safe 30-30 pressure range but this should still be a light recoil rifle for her, better than reduced recoil 308 Win and saving us having to find another youth sized rifle, no options there.