Suggestions for a "big and slow" caliber?

No mention of the 338 Win. Mag. (OP mentioned the 338-06). Doesn't seem to be much of a following for it. I have a recently acquired 338 WM Ruger Hawkeye that is equipped with a muzzle brake which reduces recoil down to 308 levels - but it's quite loud. Haven't used it on game yet but would prefer it over my 300 WM for use on heavy game because it fires a heavier bullet.

About the same ballistics as my fast 350 RM - a 250gr bullet at 2700 fps muzzle speed. 350 bullets have 12% more cross-sectional area but 338 bullets have higher ballistic coefficients and sectional densities so the 338 WM would shoot flatter and penetrate better with more retained energy than the 350.
 
I shoot a 338WM Vanguard in a factory carbine 20" barrel. Really like it. Light to carry and very gentle off the bench compared to a 375 H&H 270gr at 2800. The 375Ruger in the Mossberg Patriot at similar performance levels was "lively".
 
Any real performance difference between the 2 on heavy game? Another rifle to put on the roster for next season is my 338 to see how it performs on heavy game with 265gr LR AB's, 0.778 b.c. ;)
 
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Gatehouse said:
In 2017 (soon 2018) your .270 outclasses a .358 Win in every way. I would take a .270 with good bullets grizzly hunting before I would pick a .358 Win. The 9.3x62 offers a step up at regular hunting distances but a .300 magnum with heavy bullets will operate similarly and extend the range, but you don't want a .300.

Frankly, when people tell me they want more than the 270/3006/7RM class of hunting cartridges, I think they should jump right past all the "heavy by convenience" bullet/cartridge combos like the 35 Whelen, 358 etc and get into a .375 Ruger. It's the best .375 hunting cartridge ever developed. Trajectory is similar to your .270 and it offers a true upgrade at short and longer ranges.
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Well you dont' have to worry about that one....

Its not that I need a new rifle. I know that my 270 is perfectly capable for any hunting I am doing currently. But variety is nice, and I'd love to gain some first hand experience as to the effectiveness of more than just my 270.

I don't want a 300magnum because it basically does what my 270 does, just with more oomph. I'll likely end up with a 300magnum down the road, but I want to go a different direction (larger caliber) with this one. I also don't want to step up too much in recoil because I want to keep rifle weight down as much as possible while still being able to comfortably shoot the rifle. I feel like stepping up to a 375 is a bigger step recoilwise than I am prepared to take - I am not a big guy, and I just don't have a wealth of experience with anything bigger than 30/06 or 300wm so I want to work my way up.
 
What about a muzzle loader Suther? I know it’s a departure from what’s been discussed so far, but it fits you low & slow bill while getting you into a new segment of the sport...

Just a passing thought.
 
If you go bigger you go heavier bullets. That's going to increase recoil. If you want bigger and heavier but the same or less recoil than the 270 you're kinda stuck between old black powder cases that turned into smokeless cartridges or bigger pistol cartridges in a rifle
44 mag gets you a 429 diameter and up to 300 gr bullet. Might not make the 200 yards goal you had set but out to 125 yards it should be a decent killer
41 mag has better sd and BC for the most part. A 265 gr bullet should reach 1700+ fps from a 20" tube. I've read 210 gr bullets reaching 2000 fps that's in solid modern inline muzzleloader territory and about even with the 30/30
There's the 454 casul if I spelled it wrong I'm sorry. I haven't played with one of my own but it's up there in performance for a pistol round
If handgunners can cleanly take deer to a 100 yards with scoped revolvers a scoped rifle will only add velocity and extended accurate range all with less recoil then any of the standard magnums listed.
I have a variety of magnums including the 300 wm and 458 wm and I love them but I myself am considering a 41 mag for a deer hunt next season because it's all I really need. I don't need the speed to flatten trajectories as shots will be at most 100 yards. It offers the weight and frontal diameter needed to cleanly pass thru a mature whitetail and I get 10 rnds in the tube in case of multiple targets present themselves all while being fairly light and easy to carry. With proper bullets bear over bait would be on the menu as well

If you do step up to a larger rifle buy one that fits. A well fitting rifle cuts down felt recoil considerably. Tikkas don't fit me and a t3 in 308 feels the same as shooting my savage 111 in 300wm
 
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Slamfire said:
No mention of the 338 Win. Mag. (OP mentioned the 338-06). Doesn't seem to be much of a following for it. I have a recently acquired 338 WM Ruger Hawkeye that is equipped with a muzzle brake which reduces recoil down to 308 levels - but it's quite loud. Haven't used it on game yet but would prefer it over my 300 WM for use on heavy game because it fires a heavier bullet.

About the same ballistics as my fast 350 RM - a 250gr bullet at 2700 fps muzzle speed. 350 bullets have 12% more cross-sectional area but 338 bullets have higher ballistic coefficients and sectional densities so the 338 WM would shoot flatter and penetrate better with more retained energy than the 350.
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To say the 338 win mag doesn't have much of a following is an odd statement. I would hazard a guess that it's the most popular round on the power scale from 300 win up to a 375 h&h. Elmer Keith did a good job bragging the round up, and for good reason.
But it's not something that is well suited for a light gun or for someone who wants to avoid heavy recoil.
 
Right, it has a following but it seems just not around here on CGN because I haven't seen much discussion around it or other 338 calibers. A logical step up in power from 30 caliber I think. Good range of bullet weights available and shoots pretty fast. Some with amazingly high ballistic coefficients like the 265gr Nosler LR AB mentioned. Should be a fine performer on heavy game especially with heavier bullets out to extended ranges.
 
It's true, .338 WM doesn't get a lot of press. Many .338's go faster, some are shorter, a couple are very tactic lol. There are a LOT of .338 win mags out there though. On this continent there are certainly more .338's than .375's. The case capacity is just about perfect for 225gr bullets. most guys who are considering .338's today are hoping to use 265gr+ high BC bullets, and that's where the old Winnie falls short. One could load it up with 300gr bullets at ~2300fps, but in the context of this discussion it's 'almost' big and 'almost' slow.

The reality is .338 WM is a medium size, medium speed cartridge. It's great, like a 30-06... but like a 30-06 there are more efficient cartridges for use inside 300yds, and there are higher capacity cartridges which greatly extend the 'effective range' beyond 500yd (if you're into that). Medium just isn't so exciting to talk about.
 
Suther said:
Well you dont' have to worry about that one....

Its not that I need a new rifle. I know that my 270 is perfectly capable for any hunting I am doing currently. But variety is nice, and I'd love to gain some first hand experience as to the effectiveness of more than just my 270.

I don't want a 300magnum because it basically does what my 270 does, just with more oomph. I'll likely end up with a 300magnum down the road, but I want to go a different direction (larger caliber) with this one. I also don't want to step up too much in recoil because I want to keep rifle weight down as much as possible while still being able to comfortably shoot the rifle. I feel like stepping up to a 375 is a bigger step recoilwise than I am prepared to take - I am not a big guy, and I just don't have a wealth of experience with anything bigger than 30/06 or 300wm so I want to work my way up.
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Excellent. We are here to enable you no problem. ;)
 
Slamfire said:
Right, it has a following but it seems just not around here on CGN because I haven't seen much discussion around it or other 338 calibers. A logical step up in power from 30 caliber I think. Good range of bullet weights available and shoots pretty fast. Some with amazingly high ballistic coefficients like the 265gr Nosler LR AB mentioned. Should be a fine performer on heavy game especially with heavier bullets out to extended ranges.
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I don't mean to derail this thread, but that's like saying .308 cal is a logical step up in power from .270. While that may be true for you, my results disagree. Based on what I have seen, results suggest it's an incremental step.

.338 May be a logical step up from .270, and with respect to the OP, it may be an interesting point of comparison, but the results will share a lot more similarities than differences.

The way I look at it;

Small; .17-.25 ~35-100gr
Medium; .26-.33. ~100-200gr
Large; .35-.45. ~200-400gr
Extra large .475+ ~why are we measuring in grains?
 
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Nosler lists 2745 fps for the 265gr LR AB in a 24" barrel 338 WM. :eek:

Energy at 475 yards is 3000 ft-lbs. Blows my fast 350 RM out of the water. As well as my 300 WM.

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/338-winchester-magnum/

25520819078_cd76603d80_b.jpg
 
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...the sound of powder crunching...

Good luck getting those numbers in the real world - nosler has inflated the published BC of the LRAB and those of us who shoot to extended ranges are finding the trajectories (and energy levels) are vastly different than theoretical.

Then again, maybe you shoot at 10,000ft. In the summer you might even get better results than your table suggests!

I look forward to reading your findings Slamfire, the LRAB's are pretty neat, and I appreciate your contributions.
 
Here's my 338 WM Ruger stainless laminate Hawkeye. Got a super deal. Previous owner got it properly glass-bedded which is a nice improvement. It's actually a very nicely balanced rifle. Once I got the funky trigger sorted it's superbly accurate. Move this one to the top of the roster for next season. ;)

34014729585_02898f04ff_b.jpg

338 Win. Mag. Ruger M77 Stainless Laminate Hawkeye with Burris Timberline 4x20mm
 
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Hand Skills said:
It's true, .338 WM doesn't get a lot of press. Many .338's go faster, some are shorter, a couple are very tactic lol. There are a LOT of .338 win mags out there though. On this continent there are certainly more .338's than .375's. The case capacity is just about perfect for 225gr bullets. most guys who are considering .338's today are hoping to use 265gr+ high BC bullets, and that's where the old Winnie falls short. One could load it up with 300gr bullets at ~2300fps, but in the context of this discussion it's 'almost' big and 'almost' slow.

The reality is .338 WM is a medium size, medium speed cartridge. It's great, like a 30-06... but like a 30-06 there are more efficient cartridges for use inside 300yds, and there are higher capacity cartridges which greatly extend the 'effective range' beyond 500yd (if you're into that). Medium just isn't so exciting to talk about.
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Specifically for hunters though it's pushing the upper reaches of recoil in a conventionally stocked and weighted rifle. I do understand that number crunchers can find fault in anything, but I can't imagine a hunter finding much fault in a 338 win. It's definitely on my list of things to own and saddle that hold between the 3006 and 375.
 
Slamfire said:
Nosler lists 2745 fps for the 265gr LR AB in a 24" barrel 338 WM. :eek:

Energy at 475 yards is 3000 ft-lbs. Blows my fast 350 RM out of the water. As well as my 300 WM.

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/338-winchester-magnum/

25520819078_cd76603d80_b.jpg
Click to expand...

I hear that most 338 bullets are built for higher velocities(340 Weatherby, 338 rum ect velocities), and thus the 338wm is only effective out to 200-300yds before expansion becomes an issue. Obviously I have no first hand experience, but that's what Douglas has said in the past and I have no reason to believe he doesn't know wtf he is talking about...
 
Personally the only 358 Win that interests me would be a Savage 99, otherwise with typical bullet weights the 8x57 (Tradeex has lots) does everything the 358 does.

Also, a Win 92 clone in 45 Colt can duplicate the old 45-75.

Consider a 44 Mag lever action, it has a big hole in the barrel and brass and other components are cheaper, think 1000 shots/lb of Red Dot or 300/lb of H110.
 
Nosler claims the following about the LR AB bullet -

"Designed with an optimum performance window ranging from 3,200 fps to 1,300 fps, the unique tapered jacket geometry and proprietary bonding process of the AccuBond® LR allow it to expand rapidly for effective energy transfer and significant tissue damage while retaining sufficient weight to ensure deep penetration into the vitals."

https://www.nosler.com/accubond-long-range-bullet/

The AB bullet is a good design. Works great, the 375 300gr AB expanded and held together well on the Bull Moose I downed this past season so I think the LR AB should perform as claimed. I will have to go find some 265gr LR AB's and work up an accurate and fast load. It's gonna be my long range Elk stomper. :)
 
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Actually a .44 Mag does meet the criteria posted by the OP.... I can get 2100 fps with 200's using H110 out of my 77/44.
 
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