Got a concentricity gauge

curseyou said:
I'm curious. But this reads like an idea, not fact, even from a guy like Salazar. Just like brass fit to chamber by neck sizing gives a tighter, more repeatable fit. Who is to say which is better? We need a box of truth.

It would be helpful if he could load 100 rounds each using neck/bump vs full sizing. Same ammo press powder bullets and rifle and shooter. Then we could evaluate the results based on how they actually impact performance. Then conjecture and theory have a moment in the sun.

Neck sizing wasnt an accuracy thing when I got my dies. It was an attempt to preserve brass life, as it slows brass wear and flow by minimizimg work hardening. You can get a few extra reloads compared to full length sizing.

Salazar sounds like he thinks he is pseudo-headspacing off the ogive. That the bullet will decide its alignment with the throat and not the shoulder in the chamber and the relation to the neck. Has a voodoo feel to it.
Click to expand...

How about two competitive shooters opinions who shoot for "Team Lapua USA", and even benchrest shooters are now full length resizing their cases. You can not have uniformity with your cases unless they are full length resized each time they are fired.

Y3IiYL5.jpg


 
Last edited:
Also remember your shoulder bump is equal to your head clearance and the ejector is pushing the case forward and away from the bolt face.

This means with a full length resized case only the case shoulder is touching the chamber and the bullet is centered in the throat. So again with a full length resized case the case body and case neck has no guiding or aligning effect on the bullet in the throat.

HK76WCp.jpg


Below only the case shoulder is touching the chamber with a full length resized cases and the case body has no guiding effect. Meaning a warped case has little to no effect on bullet alignment with the axis of the bore when full length resized.

RDNXFbN.png


Bottom line, your better off being a member of "The rat turd in the violin case" club and not neck sizing.

My 2 cents or two rat turds. :stirthepot2:
 
Last edited:
The method of redding body die and lee collet neck size die combined, would also achieve this same result
My rifle with factory barrel (maybe custom barrel will be different), prefered by a good margin body + neck over fls
 
I’m getting more sympathetic to the idea of full length resizing every time, but with the expander ball removed - or doing as noted in the previous post - body die to bump the shoulder and then a collet die to size the neck.

Anyone else going without the expander ball? I heard it can induce runout as the ball is pullled back up through the neck on the press upstroke...can definitely feel it pull.
 
FirearmsEnthusiast said:
I’m getting more sympathetic to the idea of full length resizing every time, but with the expander ball removed - or doing as noted in the previous post - body die to bump the shoulder and then a collet die to size the neck.

Anyone else going without the expander ball? I heard it can induce runout as the ball is pullled back up through the neck on the press upstroke...can definitely feel it pull.
Click to expand...

If you lube the inside of the case neck you will greatly reduce any friction between the case neck and the expander.

The Forster full length benchrest die has a high mounted floating expander. The neck of the case is held and centered in the neck of the die when the expander enters the case neck. Meaning the expander can not pull the case necks off center.

If you remove the expander the inside neck diameter will be too small and you will have pushed the case neck thickness variations to the inside of the case neck.

If you remove the dies expander you will need a expander die to get the correct bullet grip/neck tension. The difference is you will be expanding the case neck on the upstroke of the ram and not "pulling" the neck off center.

And the Forster die with its floating expander gives you the advantage of resizing the case in one operation with one die.

Y7Iyv8o.jpg
 
If my runout is mainly 1 thou, with a few being 0.5 thou, and even less being 1.5 thou, what would be the benefit of changing my body die and collet die, for a FLS die?
 
MartyK2500 said:
If my runout is mainly 1 thou, with a few being 0.5 thou, and even less being 1.5 thou, what would be the benefit of changing my body die and collet die, for a FLS die?
Click to expand...

You would have little to no benefit switching from the body die and Lee collet die to the Forster full length die concerning runout. But if you used the Forster die you would be sizing your cases in one operation.

I do not like the Lee collet die because of what it does to the outside of the case neck. I like to measure case "neck" runout after sizing and do not like the "speed bumps" the Lee die leaves on the case neck.

That being said if you like your method and results then why change. The best part of reloading is the person pulling the press handle decides how to do it.
 
bigedp51 said:
You would have little to no benefit switching from the body die and Lee collet die to the Forster full length die concerning runout. But if you used the Forster die you would be sizing your cases in one operation.

I do not like the Lee collet die because of what it does to the outside of the case neck. I like to measure case "neck" runout after sizing and do not like the "speed bumps" the Lee die leaves on the case neck.

That being said if you like your method and results then why change. The best part of reloading is the person pulling the press handle decides how to do it.
Click to expand...

I agree with the "speed bumps" comment above - the Lee collet die leaves little vertical lines on the case neck (4 of them) due to the "petals" of the collet contacting the brass, which causes the concentricity gauge to jump when it passed over them. I don't measure neck concentricity on loaded ammo, where this would occur (but probably I should), but rather I measure bullet concentricity.

1 thou or less of runout is where we all aspire to be (maybe half a thou) - then there are other issues - such as getting muzzle velocity ES and SD down - my goal is to get SD down to 5 FPS on around 2800 fps for .308 / 168gr and to keep it there consistently. But that's a whole other thread!
 
bigedp51 said:
You would have little to no benefit switching from the body die and Lee collet die to the Forster full length die concerning runout. But if you used the Forster die you would be sizing your cases in one operation.

I do not like the Lee collet die because of what it does to the outside of the case neck. I like to measure case "neck" runout after sizing and do not like the "speed bumps" the Lee die leaves on the case neck.

That being said if you like your method and results then why change. The best part of reloading is the person pulling the press handle decides how to do it.
Click to expand...

I agree partially to the speed bump comment.
What i used to do, wet tumble brass, then when neck sizing have 4 streak marks and brass hard to process.
What i did, email Jerry (my reload tool-component pusher) and ask whats up with that
Following his reply, now dry tumble brass with case polish instead of wet tumble. Neck sizing is now seamless and glides well, also no more streak marks

Body size-neck size is so quick i don't mind having to do both.
What i would skip if i could, neck size and anneal every firing, as that requires time.
But i got along with the program, boring parts are done while drinking a 6 pack a listening to good music, all is good now

''The best part of reloading is the person pulling the press handle decides how to do it''
Amen
 
FirearmsEnthusiast said:
I agree with the "speed bumps" comment above - the Lee collet die leaves little vertical lines on the case neck (4 of them) due to the "petals" of the collet contacting the brass, which causes the concentricity gauge to jump when it passed over them. I don't measure neck concentricity on loaded ammo, where this would occur (but probably I should), but rather I measure bullet concentricity.

1 thou or less of runout is where we all aspire to be (maybe half a thou) - then there are other issues - such as getting muzzle velocity ES and SD down - my goal is to get SD down to 5 FPS on around 2800 fps for .308 / 168gr and to keep it there consistently. But that's a whole other thread!
Click to expand...

I am a novice reloader (1200 rounds of 308 under the belt, 50-60K of 9mm/40SW combined, but these don't count as i now realise reloading pistol is a childs game compared to rifle)
And, manage 1 thou runout.
I don't do anything ''better'' than anyone, but do see that using dies that we're strongly recommended to me, does minimise runout.
If i would of known better, so far that runout gauge has been a waste of money.
 
MartyK2500 said:
I am a novice reloader (1200 rounds of 308 under the belt, 50-60K of 9mm/40SW combined, but these don't count as i now realise reloading pistol is a childs game compared to rifle)
And, manage 1 thou runout.
I don't do anything ''better'' than anyone, but do see that using dies that we're strongly recommended to me, does minimise runout.
If i would of known better, so far that runout gauge has been a waste of money.
Click to expand...

Sorry to break it to you but 51-61k of loaded rounds is not novice reloader but an addict!
 
FirearmsEnthusiast said:
I agree with the "speed bumps" comment above - the Lee collet die leaves little vertical lines on the case neck (4 of them) due to the "petals" of the collet contacting the brass, which causes the concentricity gauge to jump when it passed over them. I don't measure neck concentricity on loaded ammo, where this would occur (but probably I should), but rather I measure bullet concentricity.

1 thou or less of runout is where we all aspire to be (maybe half a thou) - then there are other issues - such as getting muzzle velocity ES and SD down - my goal is to get SD down to 5 FPS on around 2800 fps for .308 / 168gr and to keep it there consistently. But that's a whole other thread!
Click to expand...

As Jerry (Mystic Precision) has described, make a first pass with the Lee collet neck sizer, drop the ram, rotate the brass 1/8th of a turn and make another pass. This will tend to 'flatten out' the speed bumps a bit.
 
GreenBob said:
Sorry to break it to you but 51-61k of loaded rounds is not novice reloader but an addict!
Click to expand...

Pistol rounds don't count.
You screw 4 dies in a dillon 650, requires a few basic reload knowledge, then you just crank away.
This single stage rifle reloading experience in 2017, has been quite the journey.
All these new terms to learn and know what to do with them, i can think of measuring the lands, runout, headspace, neck turning, Ogive, annealing and much more, all stuff i never had to bother with pistol.
 
rick357 said:
As Jerry (Mystic Precision) has described, make a first pass with the Lee collet neck sizer, drop the ram, rotate the brass 1/8th of a turn and make another pass. This will tend to 'flatten out' the speed bumps a bit.
Click to expand...

+1, even though Jerry has been my rifle reload mentor over emails, this method was learned from instruction booklet on my end.
Lee specifies to do so.
I never had streak marks, except when i was wet tumbling, but that's a whole different story
 
Eh guys I have to ask ...... I’ve been thinking of buying a concentricity guage ..... is one better than the other ...Sinclair ...??.21st century???? Or neco ???.
These are the ones that have caught my attention
Any thoughts please. Pm me
Thank you in advance and for your thoughts
Davide
 
MartyK2500 said:
I am a novice reloader (1200 rounds of 308 under the belt, 50-60K of 9mm/40SW combined, but these don't count as i now realise reloading pistol is a childs game compared to rifle)
And, manage 1 thou runout.
I don't do anything ''better'' than anyone, but do see that using dies that we're strongly recommended to me, does minimise runout.
If i would of known better, so far that runout gauge has been a waste of money.
Click to expand...

It's funny, I have no issues loading my rifle rounds, but I'm having a Hell of a time setting up for pistol, lol.
 
rkm456 said:
It's funny, I have no issues loading my rifle rounds, but I'm having a Hell of a time setting up for pistol, lol.
Click to expand...

Lol this is ironic.
As pistol there is no annealing, no trimming, no neck turning, powder is volumetric (instead of weighted), no cycle count on brass, no runout, no headspace, no trouble!
Sure there is a minimum, but straight walled cartridges like 9mm, full length resize, primer, powder, seat bullet, crimp, and shoot!
If ever you need help setting a dillon press (in my opinion THE press for pistol only), PM me i am local. You could come and try my press (dillon 650) as i could walk you through it or whatever.
 
davide montini said:
Eh guys I have to ask ...... I’ve been thinking of buying a concentricity guage ..... is one better than the other ...Sinclair ...??.21st century???? Or neco ???.
These are the ones that have caught my attention
Any thoughts please. Pm me
Thank you in advance and for your thoughts
Davide
Click to expand...

Can't answer to that, i just know, that with my mechanical knowledge of how things work, even if i didn't try other gauges, sinclair is a solid concept
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom