Milsurp Newbie question...

target-guy

target-guy

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Looking for some expert opinions here.....
My kids have been playing the new Call Of Duty WWII and want to shoot some oldies at the range.
I have no surplus experience and was wondering what a decent, cost effective, fun to shoot German surplus rifle might be.
If I have checked too many boxes on my wish list, please let me know what else is should be looking at.
Not too picky on bolt or semi, but something that I might be able to add a period-specific scope to.
Thanks again.
 
Mauser K98 in 8mm is the standard German WW2 most common milsurp.
If you’re not too picky about true period correctness, i would find a re-chambered Israeli one in 7.62x51. More common ammo.
Prices vary but will range between $450-$1000+ depending on scarcity, Condition, Year etc.
You’ll have problems finding a true sniper version and a true period scope. Maybe at a gunshow but the cost will be quite high.

All the scopable milsurps command a higher price.
 
The Russian capture mausers seem to be the cheapest but I am not a mauser expert. I see mausers for 600-800 so I am not sure you would call that cost effective. When you are getting into period correct scopes for milsurps you can just take cost effectiveness and throw it out the window. 8mm ammo is also expensive. Its also not easy to find, not difficult either. You just won't find it at Canadian tire or Cabela's on a regular basis

There are also Spanish and Israeli mausers that are chambered in 308 win. They seem to go for 400-500 and I hear they are good. Surplus 308 ammo is available and its cheap by comparison to factory ammo

I recently bought a norinco jw25a and it is a nice gun. If you don't know what it is, it is a 22lr mag fed rifle that looks like a mauser and you can put a scope on it easily. 22lr ammo is dirt cheap

Mosin nagants are still the cheapest WW2 milsurp guns out there, they can be found for 200-300. That would be cost effective and fun to shoot. They are not just junk rifles even though I am sure some one will say they are. I will admit they are not highly refined and smooth shooting but they shoot straight and will last a couple lifetimes. Ammo fluctuates on this one. My observations have put 7.62x54r at .70 cents a shot on average with no sales

If you are ok with sporterized guns then the lee enfield would be a good choice, they are 150-250. You can get them fairly cheap and they are fantastic guns. The full wood ones are a lot more expensive than sporterized ones. the full wood ones are 500-1000 depending on many variables. 303 British ammo is expensive but you will always find it at Canadian tire or Cabela's. I recommend reloading 303 British.
 
I sold a K98 without much regret: I shot it rarely, partly because I got tired of beating the hell out of my shoulder. The 8mm round kicks like the proverbial mule, and it gets old quickly.
 
Considering you can generally get an SVT-40 for less $$ than a mixmaster Russian Capture K98, I'd go that route. More fun to shoot, semi-auto, cheaper ammo, easier on the shoulder... Not as accurate (well, depends on what you get, really, a "good" SVT-40 can be more accurate than a bad K98, but in general a K98 will be more accurate).
 
Yugo m48. Can get them new still in grease for 600 or less. They even look sorta like a k98 just with a slightly different handguard.
 
target-guy said:
Looking for some expert opinions here.....
My kids have been playing the new Call Of Duty WWII and want to shoot some oldies at the range.
I have no surplus experience and was wondering what a decent, cost effective, fun to shoot German surplus rifle might be.
If I have checked too many boxes on my wish list, please let me know what else is should be looking at.
Not too picky on bolt or semi, but something that I might be able to add a period-specific scope to.
Thanks again.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately, "German Surplus", "Cost Effective" and "Period-specific Scope" don't go together. It's like the old adage; "you can have it done fast, cheap or good. Pick two".

Quickest way to a clone is to buy one of the refurbished K98s, an older hunting scope with the German Post reticle, a set of Talley rings/bases and a tube of red loctite. Don't laugh, I helped a shooting buddy set one up and he's 200 rounds in with no issues yet. And no screw holes to deal with when he's done playing sniper.

Otherwise, post a WTB on the EE, see what comes up. Or build your own. You'll want to find a good gunsmith though, there's a little more to mounting optics on a K98 than on a Remington 700! Google Accumounts K98 and settle in for a good read, you'll get an idea what your options are pretty quickly.

EDIT; forgot about GunBoards in the US. VoPo G43s can be had for $2k ish, figgure $3k CDN by the time you get it landed here. Prophet River can handle the import.

:)
 
Cornflake Leader: Wanting something you could (easily) add a period scope to really does suggest SVT 40. Find one with a good bore and you can add a repro mount and original scope for not too much money. Big time fun at the range.

milsurpo

edit- added photos of my $200 Lever Christmas special with repro mount and refurbed original scope. After a wee bit of fooling with bedding it shoots reasonable 5 shot groups (quickly).
 
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milsurpo said:
Cornflake Leader: Wanting something you could (easily) add a period scope to really does suggest SVT 40. Find one with a good bore and you can add a repro mount and original scope for not too much money. Big time fun at the range.

milsurpo

edit- added photos of my $200 Lever Christmas special with repro mount and refurbed original scope. After a wee bit of fooling with bedding it shoots reasonable 5 shot groups (quickly).
Click to expand...

Totally. I own one SVT clone and one 91/30, couldn't ask for better. But the OP wanted a German rifle so that's what I spoke of ;)

If I were to do a sniper clone for me, I would just go to the M39 and a repro PEM set up.
 
I found the SVT-40 to be a tad troublesome and very noisy.
K98 mausers are pretty neat and quite simple, the 8 x 57 round is brisker than a 7.62 x 51... but not too bad. Easier to teach the kids good shooting fundamentals with a bolt than a semi too.
The repro mount is about 130 IIRC, decent glass can be had for 3-400 as well. But I mounted my own, that helped lots.
 
Welcome to collecting milsurps. They are lots of fun to shoot and collect! I suggest that you get a Russian captured k98. They can be found from 600 to 1000 dollars depending where you get them from. Lots of gun stores will charge 900 plus for the Russian captured mausers but some can be found slightly cheaper on the equipment exchange. If you are looking for a rifle with a period correct scope I suggest getting a Mosin pu sniper. You should be able to find a nice original refurbished sniper from the 7 to 900 dollar range. Surprisingly they are quite accurate as well. As will all surplus guns make sure that you look the bores over before buying as some of them have seen heavy use and may be worn out and corroded. Good luck on your search.
 
target-guy said:
Looking for some expert opinions here.....
My kids have been playing the new Call Of Duty WWII and want to shoot some oldies at the range.
I have no surplus experience and was wondering what a decent, cost effective, fun to shoot German surplus rifle might be.
If I have checked too many boxes on my wish list, please let me know what else is should be looking at.
Not too picky on bolt or semi, but something that I might be able to add a period-specific scope to.
Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Not easily scopable, but a Czech VZ 24 mauser wouldn't look too out of place. The germans captured and repurposed them after the fall of Czechoslovakia, and they aren't too expensive in Canada right now about $4-500.

2L5dSqm.jpg


The straight bolt handle is the biggest identifier of a VZ 24 compared to a K98, it also has like a dozen sling mount points on it.
 
target-guy said:
Looking for some expert opinions here.....
My kids have been playing the new Call Of Duty WWII and want to shoot some oldies at the range.
I have no surplus experience and was wondering what a decent, cost effective, fun to shoot German surplus rifle might be.
If I have checked too many boxes on my wish list, please let me know what else is should be looking at.
Not too picky on bolt or semi, but something that I might be able to add a period-specific scope to.
Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Good on you dad, You will no doubt create some great memories with the milsurps, and your family.
 
It's funny but after you have a few milsurps you'll be going back to Fallout 4 and downloading the Mauser or SVT40'S mods to use them in game too.
 
IMHO - you need to weigh $$$ for the rifle and $ for the ammo, before going in whole hog.

Mosin Nagant - cheap to buy and cheap to shoot, but peasant rifles
SKS - ditto and semi-auto
SVT - moderate price and cheap to shoot, can be fussy and a challenge to accurize
Russian capture Mauser - moderate prices and rising, expensive to shoot (very limited supply of milsurp ammo), but the least expensive of all full-cartridge German Mausers. The prices escalate to eye watering levels for matching and complete wartime German rifles
Yugoslav Mausers - not cross compatible with the German rifles (different guard screw spacing), ditto on ammo
Swedish Mausers - very nicely made, but neither German or Yugoslav, and there's no such thing as cheap 6.5 Swedish ammo
French rifles - interesting engineering, but not relevant to your area of interest, ammo is a challenge
No 1 Lee Enfields - generally the wrong era for WW2, unless you are interested in UK and Commonwealth campaigns and the Pacific
No. 4 Lee Enfields - it is a rising market!
US bolt rifles - overpriced in the US, many are modified or sporterized in Canada (Model 1917 Enfields especially), lots of work for a workmanlike rifle, but it will always be easy to find 30-06 ammo in North America. The Pattern 1914 British Enfield is similar, but shoots harder to find .303Br.
US M1 Garand - prices spike with the release of every Hollywood WW2 movie - Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers especially. Good rifles in most respects, except for the acquisition price. Easy to find ammo. Great range presence.

Hope this cursory market survey helps.
 
Excellent breakdown, thank you!
maple_leaf_eh said:
IMHO - you need to weigh $$$ for the rifle and $ for the ammo, before going in whole hog.

Mosin Nagant - cheap to buy and cheap to shoot, but peasant rifles
SKS - ditto and semi-auto
SVT - moderate price and cheap to shoot, can be fussy and a challenge to accurize
Russian capture Mauser - moderate prices and rising, expensive to shoot (very limited supply of milsurp ammo), but the least expensive of all full-cartridge German Mausers. The prices escalate to eye watering levels for matching and complete wartime German rifles
Yugoslav Mausers - not cross compatible with the German rifles (different guard screw spacing), ditto on ammo
Swedish Mausers - very nicely made, but neither German or Yugoslav, and there's no such thing as cheap 6.5 Swedish ammo
French rifles - interesting engineering, but not relevant to your area of interest, ammo is a challenge
No 1 Lee Enfields - generally the wrong era for WW2, unless you are interested in UK and Commonwealth campaigns and the Pacific
No. 4 Lee Enfields - it is a rising market!
US bolt rifles - overpriced in the US, many are modified or sporterized in Canada (Model 1917 Enfields especially), lots of work for a workmanlike rifle, but it will always be easy to find 30-06 ammo in North America. The Pattern 1914 British Enfield is similar, but shoots harder to find .303Br.
US M1 Garand - prices spike with the release of every Hollywood WW2 movie - Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers especially. Good rifles in most respects, except for the acquisition price. Easy to find ammo. Great range presence.

Hope this cursory market survey helps.
Click to expand...
 
My recommendation is to try and find someone in your area who has one or more of these firearms. It really is a lot of money to invest for a feel, and I know some people (myself included) are willing to let people try out arms in their collection provided they pay for ammo and buy the coffee.

Even a basic look at WWII firearms is going to cost you a good amount.

Mosin Nagant M91/30 your looking at about 200$ plus ammo
SVT-40 haven't really been following the price on these but seems to be at least 600$ plus ammo (and these rifles can be picky on ammo)
Carcano M38 or M41 your looking at about 300-400$ plus ammo
Lee Enfield No. 1 Mk. 3* your looking at around 400-800$ plus ammo (at roughly 30$ a box)
Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1 your looking around 400-1000$ plus ammo
K98k your looking at least 400-1000$ for a shooter, best bet if you want to buy one and just get a feel is a Israeli owned one in 7.62 Nato as that would keep ammo costs down
Any semi-auto German rifle of WWII your looking at least 2k and up
M1 Garand your looking at about 1000-2000$ plus ammo costs
M1 Carbine your looking at about 700-1000$ for a generic one plus ammo
I could keep going but you can get the jist of it.
 
My question would be, would a .22 training rifle be better for your kids ? there are some nice WWII trainers out there. and clones.
 
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