How many of you prefer rifles with back up irons as well as optics?

The whole "iron sights in case your scope fails" thing is pretty moot as long as you use good optics.

Nope, sorry, it doesn't necessarily work that way. Having quality optics will certainly decrease the odds of a failure due to fogging or loss of zero or reticle failure...decrease, but not entirely eliminate. But stuff happens on a hunt; the one time in my life when I needed a back-up for my scope occurred when I had taken a nasty tumble, landing on my back...on a rock...with the fall broken only by my scope. Smashing a glass objective lens with 200+ pounds of force on a rock will break it; it broke my Leupold (and for awhile felt like it had broken my back!) and it would have broken any scope on the planet. I was far afield, in the middle of an expensive hunt far from home, and had the gun not been equipped with iron sights, the hunting would have been done for that day. I had a replacement scope in camp, and mounted it on the gun that night, checked zero and continued my hunt. So without iron sights, I would have lost a day; one day out of the seven that I had. As it was, I didn't fire a shot that day...but had the capability to do so.

Could only see my self using them if I was in deer camp or out on an extended trip. Most my hunting is not that way, fall and break my optic. I will just go home lol.

Even still, at deer camp that is why there is a back up/loaner gun or two always kicking around.

Not a terrible idea, would just need a trip back to the truck for the multi tool to remove broken optic and use the irons back up sights. Just dont think I would ever be in such DIRE need of that option....

It's never dire need...but it can be burning desire. You spend hours, days, weeks afield looking and waiting and hoping for that "moment of truth" (geez, I hate that hackneyed expression, but...). If it comes and you aren't ready...because your scope is pooched, or you're taking a dump or sleeping or just not paying attention...does it matter whether it's in the Selous in Africa, or the mountains of B.C. or the back forty behind the barn? Missing your chance sucks, no matter where or when it happens. Being prepared doesn't ever hurt, and it can make all the difference.

"A trip back to the truck for the multi-tool"??? Please!
 
Nope, sorry, it doesn't necessarily work that way. Having quality optics will certainly decrease the odds of a failure due to fogging or loss of zero or reticle failure...decrease, but not entirely eliminate. But stuff happens on a hunt; the one time in my life when I needed a back-up for my scope occurred when I had taken a nasty tumble, landing on my back...on a rock...with the fall broken only by my scope. Smashing a glass objective lens with 200+ pounds of force on a rock will break it; it broke my Leupold (and for awhile felt like it had broken my back!) and it would have broken any scope on the planet. I was far afield, in the middle of an expensive hunt far from home, and had the gun not been equipped with iron sights, the hunting would have been done for that day. I had a replacement scope in camp, and mounted it on the gun that night, checked zero and continued my hunt. So without iron sights, I would have lost a day; one day out of the seven that I had. As it was, I didn't fire a shot that day...but had the capability to do so.



It's never dire need...but it can be burning desire. You spend hours, days, weeks afield looking and waiting and hoping for that "moment of truth" (geez, I hate that hackneyed expression, but...). If it comes and you aren't ready...because your scope is pooched, or you're taking a dump or sleeping or just not paying attention...does it matter whether it's in the Selous in Africa, or the mountains of B.C. or the back forty behind the barn? Missing your chance sucks, no matter where or when it happens. Being prepared doesn't ever hurt, and it can make all the difference.

"A trip back to the truck for the multi-tool"??? Please!

I get where you are coming from. Just doesn't hit home to me quite as hard. Likely because I've never missed a shot on a critter due to sleeping/chitting or a gun not working.

Yea, do you not carry a "gun" multi tool in your truck or on your hunts ? I have a few. They are handy at the range too if anything needs tightened or adjusted. In this case, taken off! I dont trust the quick detach levers.

You carry an extra scope but not tools? Im confused on what part in that has you so riled up.

Right now im doing a lot of yote hunts. So yah, walk my ass back to the truck and get my tools and fix my gun if needed... Same with all the small game I do. Drive out to where im hunting and go tromp around... Break something, want water or a break... Go back to the truck...
 
I will always choose a scope or even a red dot over iron sights. I've had a scope fail on a hunt but didn't know it until I shot it at an animal, saw where the bullet was hitting and corrected. Stopping, removing the scope and then going wiht irons woouldn't have worked anyways. The whole "iron sights in case your scope fails" thing is pretty moot as long as you use good optics. Many of my rifles and scopes have taken a real beating and I've never felt the need for "back up" irons.

If a rifle comes with actually GOOD irons, there isn't any reason to remove them. Like on my 375 Ruger, they are good iron sights. I've replaced lots of poor iron sights on rifles I choose to use irons on (like most lever rifles, thier sights suck)

Bottom line- If a rifle came with good irons, I won't take them off, but I sure won't add them to a rifle I intend to use with a scope.

I am certainly not saying I have irons on all of my rigs, but your philosophy doesn’t account for potentially wounding an animal.....

It’s not all about quality of scope..... what if that “being off” means you gutshoot the animal?...... have you never fallen while hunting and raised doubt as to zero?..... what do you do then?..... abandon your hunt?......
 
you have to check zero after falling with a rifle, scoped or irons makes no difference.

I disagree Brian..... if you fall or drop your rifle and it gets jarred, even the most expensive scope could be off.... but if the irons are properly secured and show no signs of having moved, they are likely good..... it takes a lot more force to move irons in their housing than it takes to move a reticle in a scope with 1/4” moa adjustment....
 
I just can't get my head around this kind of thinking. The challenge of hunting should be the hunting rather than the shooting; Hail Mary shots have no place in my world, which seems very different than yours.

If you want a shooting challenge, then shoot targets. If you are pointing a rifle at a living animal with the intention of killing it, there should be no doubt in your mind that you can make that shot. If the shot itself is going to be a challenge, don't whine about it being "boring"...just challenge yourself to get closer...i.e. to hunt.

I won't go so far as hoyt does in stating that he won't consider shooting an animal with irons. I still enjoy using iron sights (apertures) when I can...meaning that the lighting conditions are excellent, the range is short and i can get the sight picture I want. I know full well that i probably will not get a critter when using irons, but that will be because I pass up an imperfect shot...and the vast majority of them will be imperfect.

Most of the time, when you hear a guy say "I had to take the shot...it was the only opportunity I had!" you can rest assured that he didn't have an opportunity...but he simply had to pull that trigger, because he simply had to kill something, without regard for his personal limitations and those of his equipment.

Well, that turned out poorly...poorly worded on my part most likely.
I'm not advocating Hail Mary shots; my style is rather the opposite, my longest shot made while hunting ( Glass or no glass) is 344 yds. Hence the 350 yds number.
Last fall I glassed a wounded Elk ( someone else's F**k up) with a range finder ( wanna rock Iron's better get a rangefinder or not bother); and couldn't in good conscience let the coyotes get him, I had a tag and burned it on someone else's f**k up. Ross rifle; and I'm proud that I could make it ( front quarter on a side on shot), lots of practice to do that. It was beyond what should have been attempted in good conscience... but walking on a wounded animal is conscienceless, so which is the greater evil?
When I say shooting as a challenge...well, I'm lucky in that I've 100 yd range 2 mins from my deck. It's said 'over and over' that you have top be able to 'hit a pie plate offhand at 100 yds' or you need more practice. I practice shooting offhand; less than some and more than others, but I've got a piece of track plate that is all pitted from the bullets at the 100 yd mark. That is where the scope gets boring IMO, not hunting with it. I want to be able to make a hunting shot with iron's...better burn lots of rounds on practice.
I've got some guns with good glass; Kahles, Weaver, Bushnell. It's just not my thing; I bow hunt too, so I know about hunting vs shooting.
I shoot the sh*t out of track plate offhand at 100 yds, so I can hunt better. Got a 325 yd rock out at my parents that loses weight every visit too...but that's not offhand lol. Rest it on a fencepost for that distance.
But your reply doesn't offend me; more likely dismayed is a better word...dismayed that I put the wrong message forth.
I abhor guys talking of 500+ yd shots, just seems to remove all sporting challenge from it. Removes an animals primary line of defense IMO. You know that's not an Iron's brag; that's big magnums with big glass territory.
Just not my style; I'm a meat hunter, I don't get all freaky-deaky need to take a Hail Mary shot to prove my manhood. It's not a big deal...the big rack... horn's make thin soup in my world.
Stay Safe
 
I get where you are coming from. Just doesn't hit home to me quite as hard. Likely because I've never missed a shot on a critter due to sleeping/chitting or a gun not working.

Yea, do you not carry a "gun" multi tool in your truck or on your hunts ? I have a few. They are handy at the range too if anything needs tightened or adjusted. In this case, taken off! I dont trust the quick detach levers.

You carry an extra scope but not tools? Im confused on what part in that has you so riled up.

Right now im doing a lot of yote hunts. So yah, walk my ass back to the truck and get my tools and fix my gun if needed... Same with all the small game I do. Drive out to where im hunting and go tromp around... Break something, want water or a break... Go back to the truck...

Lol, not riled up...just amazed at the difference in perspectives. I was expressing surprise that your multi-tool was back at the truck, rather than on your belt or in your pack or pockets. :)

I see your point as well. When I hunt yotes or varmints, I don't give a thought to spare scopes. The guns that I use strictly for those types of hunting don't have QD mounts or spare scopes or often even iron sights. But...when are you faced with a truly important shot while hunting yotes or varmints? The yote doesn't exist that you will remember all your life, either with pride or regret, depending upon whether or not you got him. There are no world-class ground squirrels, no record-book crows or trophy skunks. This is casual, fun hunting that teaches you a lot but doesn't offer the chance for heart-stopping excitement.

Almost any medium- or big-game hunt, whether at home or remote, offers at least a slight chance of greatness! Confidence is key, and being ready to capitalize upon any rare opportunity makes you confident.
 
I disagree Brian..... if you fall or drop your rifle and it gets jarred, even the most expensive scope could be off.... but if the irons are properly secured and show no signs of having moved, they are likely good..... it takes a lot more force to move irons in their housing than it takes to move a reticle in a scope with 1/4” moa adjustment....

Sorry, but I have had more irons get damaged and plain fall off, yet never a scope failure. After a fall, checking zero is a must with either
 
Sorry, but I have had more irons get damaged and plain fall off, yet never a scope failure. After a fall, checking zero is a must with either

what situation have you been in where your irons were damaged and yet you feel your scope is bang on?...

Again, not preaching a need for irons...... just a need to ensure you have at least one sighting system you feel will get the job done accurately...
 
Well, that turned out poorly...poorly worded on my part most likely.
I'm not advocating Hail Mary shots; my style is rather the opposite, my longest shot made while hunting ( Glass or no glass) is 344 yds. Hence the 350 yds number.
Last fall I glassed a wounded Elk ( someone else's F**k up) with a range finder ( wanna rock Iron's better get a rangefinder or not bother); and couldn't in good conscience let the coyotes get him, I had a tag and burned it on someone else's f**k up. Ross rifle; and I'm proud that I could make it ( front quarter on a side on shot), lots of practice to do that. It was beyond what should have been attempted in good conscience... but walking on a wounded animal is conscienceless, so which is the greater evil?
When I say shooting as a challenge...well, I'm lucky in that I've 100 yd range 2 mins from my deck. It's said 'over and over' that you have top be able to 'hit a pie plate offhand at 100 yds' or you need more practice. I practice shooting offhand; less than some and more than others, but I've got a piece of track plate that is all pitted from the bullets at the 100 yd mark. That is where the scope gets boring IMO, not hunting with it. I want to be able to make a hunting shot with iron's...better burn lots of rounds on practice.
I've got some guns with good glass; Kahles, Weaver, Bushnell. It's just not my thing; I bow hunt too, so I know about hunting vs shooting.
I shoot the sh*t out of track plate offhand at 100 yds, so I can hunt better. Got a 325 yd rock out at my parents that loses weight every visit too...but that's not offhand lol. Rest it on a fencepost for that distance.
But your reply doesn't offend me; more likely dismayed is a better word...dismayed that I put the wrong message forth.
I abhor guys talking of 500+ yd shots, just seems to remove all sporting challenge from it. Removes an animals primary line of defense IMO. You know that's not an Iron's brag; that's big magnums with big glass territory.
Just not my style; I'm a meat hunter, I don't get all freaky-deaky need to take a Hail Mary shot to prove my manhood. It's not a big deal...the big rack... horn's make thin soup in my world.
Stay Safe

I'm glad you didn't take offense...I certainly meant none, but I must have sounded cranky that day. Ckeeper thought I was "riled up", and now this! :)

I agree, my main reason for shooting at distant inanimate targets is simply to make closer "warm targets" seem much easier. It's easy to forget while typing that the guy on the other end of the internet doesn't hear you chuckling while you type. :)

Now...what were we talking about again...?
 
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I never go hunting more then 5 min from the house without a second rifle! I don't like see through rings, I want my scope as low as I can get it well still clearing everything. When I go into deer camp I bring a scoped rifle for the open bush sits and normally my win M94 32spc for walking the dirty stuff.
 
Only scope I ever had fail on a hunt was a Swarovski habicht. ..seal leaked and it fogged.

Goes to show price doesn't exempt an item from failure.

Mind you I had it mounted on a savage when it failed so maybe it was trying to teach me a lesson.:p
 
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