what's a viable inexpensive Non-Restricted .223/5.56x45 rifle?

ComradeVlad said:
If ur budget honestly is around $1000, I would stand by what I always recommend and that is the SU 16 TACTICAL. Been using it for years, nothing bad to say about it. As crazy as it sounds, I enjoy it more than all the ARs I've shot and owned.
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main disadvantage i see in the SU-16, is what many people see as its main advantage, i.e. the synthetic/plastic receiver, i have only owned/used rifles with metal and wood parts, i have never even used/owned a handgun with plastic grip/body and i can -almost- definitely see the synthetic receiver not withstanding a drop -say from shoulder height-... ?

i just don't see a plastic gun being as sturdy as a metal one, which is the reason why i dismissed the Sub2000 when i looked for a 9mm carbine...

Tavor is out of question for me, at $1,700 used -on a good day- for a bullpup isn't really worth it for me, if i'm willing to spend this much, i may as well get a Benelli MR1 or HK SL-8 for that much
 
Meh, id only be concerned about dropping it when its like minus 20 out. Plus if u buy one new, keltec covers it with a lifetime warranty. But if that still bothers u, a used MR1 may be ur next best bet, bought mine used for 1200 with a Burris scope already mounted. Robust gun, very reliable, decently accurate. I shoot varmints with mine.

Never been a fan of the mini 14. The few I've had experience with failed... Either unreliable, or Sh!t accuracy.
 
ComradeVlad said:
Never been a fan of the mini 14. The few I've had experience with failed... Either unreliable, or Sh!t accuracy.
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Never used one tbh, but being based on the M14/M1A design and being american made Ruger made me assume its a -somewhat- better investment? my only experience with Ruger is the few 10/22's i've owned and used and all were sturdy, reliable, accurate and never had issues with. but i did ,however, hear about sh!t accuracy with earlier Mini-14 models. i don't expect my next .223 purchase to be a dead-on precision rifle, but i kinda like to hit where i'm aiming -or close enough-, specially if its not a dirt cheap ammo (i.e. not rimfire or surplus) that i can keep pulling the trigger until something hits...
 
Owned a vz 58 in 556 was well made but wasn't a fan of the options for adding optics also didn't find it very accurate, sold it.
Bought a used SU-16 tac, took it out of the box and put it right back in and sold it. Felt cheap and knowing myself i probably would of broke it.
Bought and still own a XCR I like it, can shot steel out to 400 yards but it is front heavy with the HB barrel.
Just bought a used mini 14 583 series in a hogue stock under $800. I haven't shot it yet waiting for my scope to be delivered. Seems well made trigger doesn't seem the best but it's a semi.

Also owned a ruger American ranch in 556, nice handy short rifle not the highest fit and finish but well priced for what it is. I regret selling it and may look for one in 308.
 
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Uisge said:
Troy PAR. Ar ergos, accurate, 16” barrel, and you can run that pump pretty fast. And for coyotes you can be a little quieter than dropping the bolt. I love mine, took it coyote hunting today. No luck, too warm, and cuz I’m a terrible coyote hunter, but mostly too warm. Saw a Martin though.
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I agree....i just picked up 2 Troy pars from Rampart...50% off each off them. One Troy National on 300 Blkout, other MossyOak edition in 338 Federal, paid under $1800 taxes in for both:)....they come up on EE pretty cheap as well.
 
Raoul the SL8 is like getting comfortable with an eleven pound 4x4.

Don't sell yourself short.
The first step into black rifle is getting over the prices.
Trust me, unlike your issue C7, if you spend a grand on something you probably are not going to drop it much.
You won't be clubbing baby seals with it too often.
 
raoufhakam said:
main disadvantage i see in the SU-16, is what many people see as its main advantage, i.e. the synthetic/plastic receiver, i have only owned/used rifles with metal and wood parts, i have never even used/owned a handgun with plastic grip/body and i can -almost- definitely see the synthetic receiver not withstanding a drop -say from shoulder height-... ?

i just don't see a plastic gun being as sturdy as a metal one, which is the reason why i dismissed the Sub2000 when i looked for a 9mm carbine...

Tavor is out of question for me, at $1,700 used -on a good day- for a bullpup isn't really worth it for me, if i'm willing to spend this much, i may as well get a Benelli MR1 or HK SL-8 for that much
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I wouldn't compare the Tavor to the SL8 or the MR1.

I haven't handled an SL8 in recent memory, but I can almost gaurantee that the Tavor has better ergos. The MR1 has shotgun ergos (someone who owns one, feel free to correct me). I am not a fan of that sloped stock even on my shotguns - I much prefer an inline stock like an ar15.

It took me a few years to come around to the Tavor but once you are used to it it's awesome. The thing about the tavor is that it just works... I have at least a couple thousand rounds through mine and it's been mint (and I have a history of parts breakage on rifles). It will not be as accurate as I have read that the SL8 is however.

The current price on Tavor's would make this a no brainer for me. $1700 bucks for a non restricted rifle with a full pic rail for optics that is highly reliable? hell yeah.

Of your original options, I have had a type 97 and it was pretty cool. I liked it as a simple retro rifle - reciprocating charging handle and all. It was fun, but I sold mine as I was looking for something better to mount optics on. Mine ran great without feed ramp modifications too. Lately I have been thinking about picking up another one just for kicks.

By the way, if you are willing to go restricted, just buy an AR15. They are awesome.

Ben
 
T97. After 10mins filing the mag well it accepts all mags including my kci 100rd beta mag (pinned for 5!) and runs like a champ. Well over 1000 rds and haven’t bothered to clean it yet.
 
I had an early model Mini 14 (223) Terrible accuracy. No fun and sold it.

Then bought a Mini-30. Good accuracy, under 2 MOA. Shot surplus with no problem. Cleaning a barrel after a day of shooting is not a new experience to me. A stainless barrel would be a better option.

Enough power for deer hunting, too.
 
There is also the Vz 58 in 5.56. I have experience with that and all three you mentioned. You could flip a coin on what to pick because all four of them I had a lot of fun with. The only thing that kills me about buying non-restricted is the fact a $750 AR-15 is a better gun than every single non-restricted offering above its price.
 
There are 583 series mini14's all over the EE now for like $750 in near mint condition.
I've owned many a NR black rifle in 5.56mm over the years and I have now settled on the mini 14.
Put it this way, if you want a decently accurate, light weight, dead s**t reliable rifle then get one (highly recommend the new 58x series) They are much more accurate than the old models.
If you insist on a tacticool, ninja gun and want to hang plastic all over it, then I would stay away. Options in that department are limited (and expensive and pointless but I digress)
Another misconception is that the Mini14 mags are "expensive" I find the 5 round factory Rugers for around $30 all over the place. If I want to buy a 10 round mag for my savage MKII it's $25,for my Sig 226 pistol it's $50 A MAG! lol So really by comparison they are not expensive at all really.
If you buy one, buy a used mint one and pick up Tech Sight rear sight immediately. You will understand very quickly why lol ;)
Don't waste time/money scoping it either. Just rock the irons (Tech Sight rear sight remember!)
I loves my mini14.
 
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Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
There is also the Vz 58 in 5.56. I have experience with that and all three you mentioned. You could flip a coin on what to pick because all four of them I had a lot of fun with. The only thing that kills me about buying non-restricted is the fact a $750 AR-15 is a better gun than every single non-restricted offering above its price.
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Oh hell, if I could take my M16A1 clone out to the bush it would be the only semi auto rifle I owned period.
But this is Canada lol So fantasies aside now.
My vote to the mini14.
 
how do you tell a old from new (good from bad) mini-14 series' ?

Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
You could flip a coin on what to pick because all four of them I had a lot of fun with. The only thing that kills me about buying non-restricted is the fact a $750 AR-15 is a better gun than every single non-restricted offering above its price.
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I wouldn't even consider any of those options if an AR-15 would to be non-restricted or if i were looking for a restricted .223 rifle, but i'm specifically looking for NR for that reason...
 
The TAR-21 Tavor is fun. I know people have mentioned that the introduction of the X-95 has killed resale value - I don’t think it will turn out that way. I’ve heard IWI is stopping sales in the US to boost the X-95, not sure if that’s going to happen here, but it will always be in that sweet spot of being a NR black rifle, and should hold its value.
 
Let me +1 on the MR1; it's a good NR option for under 1500. I like the mini 14 too, but for the extra dough you're getting optics/stanag mag compatibility, as well as excellent fit & finish, reliability, and a superb trigger.
 
Ruger re engineered the mini circa 2006 with a different barrel profile to sort out the the accuracy problems. The improved guns have the 580/581 serial prefix, the older ones are still nice just not as accurate as the newer ones
 
A few thoughts....

I don't know how close you are to a gun store that would sell some of these rifles.
I strongly believe you really need to handle them first and get familiar with each one's controls and balance.

I have not owned a Ruger Mini - so I cannot confirm any pros/cons except that parts are more readily available than a rifle made overseas - not that parts are going to break often though.
I have owned an HK SL-8, CSA VZ-58 (I still own it) & a Tavor.
They all handle so differently but yet can be made to hold AR pistol mags - so that is a plus over the Mini.
The HK has a funny thumbhole stock and heavy barrel (and you notice it but it is the most accurate) plus ambi controls (are you a lefty?)
The Tavor is again an awkward beast to use until you get trained on it and it has a military pedigree oh, the trigger - could be an issue?
I find it handles comfortably after awhile and definitely better than the HK but it takes third place in terms of accuracy in my experience.
My favorite is the Czech Small Arms VZ-58 due to it's weight, price and handling, actually it is quite accurate if you are willing to mount a pic rail for a scope/red dot.
It has a chrome-lined barrel too - easy to clean if shooting corrosive.
The original CSA rifles brought into the country had some issues but in the last few years they have been solid.
A parts kit can be obtained without too much difficulty and that is all you need except if you want an AR magwell too.
Why not have 10 rounds ready to use but the plastic magazine well adapter could be made better?

It is somewhat of a bad time to be buying a rifle now that the Boxing Day/Week sales have passed but some still seem to be lingering on so perhaps you might find what you are looking for - if new at a decent price.
Buying used - well who knows what has been modified etc. but it might be a good price and worth the potential trouble.

Hope this helps.
 
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