beo mags, yes beo mags, what's going on?

[LeadMonkey]

...

 

[Daver_II]

Except here's how it'll go down in court: crown will call their expert witness, who is someone from the Firearms lab, who will testify that a 50 Beo mag is a 556 mag.

Unless you have something to prove this expert witness wrong, you are fkked.

In this way the rcmp can force the burden of proof onto you.

Please.... anybody with any logic can see that it is not.

Additionally the crown would likely not pursue the charge because it is not in the public interest to do so.

 

[Suther]

Please.... anybody with any logic can see that it is not.

Additionally the crown would likely not pursue the charge because it is not in the public interest to do so.

Can they? What evidence do you have that these are anything but a modified 556 mag? Without any proof one way or the other it becomes a he-said-she-said situation between you and the rcmp.

 

[LeadMonkey]

...

 

[Brian46]

Except here's how it'll go down in court: crown will call their expert witness, who is someone from the Firearms lab, who will testify that a 50 Beo mag is a 556 mag.

Unless you have something to prove this expert witness wrong, you are fkked.

In this way the rcmp can force the burden of proof onto you.

^Exactly

It seems by the posts here a lot of people have not had to fight criminal charges before.

 

[Daver_II]

Can they? What evidence do you have that these are anything but a modified 556 mag? Without any proof one way or the other it becomes a he-said-she-said situation between you and the rcmp.

Simple logic.

What proof do you have that the AR-15 is not a modified AR10?

So perhaps the magazines were origioannally designed for 7.62? And then modified?

A car is a modified cart?

Or the over the counter drugs you have are illegal... cause they are modified versions of schedualed substances?

 

[Brian46]

What the hell are you talking about, there are unlimited experts who can testify otherwise... anybody at Alexander Arms for starters, and thousands of weapons experts throughout North America far more qualified than the off the street dum ass RCMP tech...
.

you believe they are more qualified than the RCMP to make firearms legality decisions in canada? Sounds like a costly fight.

 

[Suther]

I love how everyone says 50 Beo won't feed from a 556 mag, when a quick Google search will show plenty of people using 30rd 556 mags with 50beo.

 

[Brian46]

They are 2 completely different designs as the .50 Beowulf cartridge will NOT function out of a .556 STANAG magazine... thus the .50 Beowulf STANAG magazine had to be designed.

this would all be a non issue if AA had wiped out the ability for the 50 beowulf stanag pattern mag to even old a 223/556 caliber cartridge

Remington/Bushmaster did this with the 450 bushmaster and Remington 30ar stanag pattern mags and it never became an issue.

 

[LeadMonkey]

...

 

[Brian46]

.50 Beowulf cartridge will NOT feed RELIABLY without adaptation... ask anyone who actually owns a .50 Beowulf upper (except Brian cause we all know he's totally full of s#*t)

Why else do you think they designed the .50 Beowulf magazine... I can get plenty of magazines to feed all kinds of different calibres SOME of the time, but they are not designed to feed the various cartridges thus not reliably.

We know it will not feed reliably, but reliability is not a no it will not hold and feed. Why do you think reliability of the assembly has anything to do with the legality?

Just like how all 223/556 stanag pattern magazines went to an anti tilt follower for reliability, those using AA 50 beowulf mags are not 100% reliable at feeding 223/556 due to the tilting follower

It has always been the RCMP contention that it was an adaptation of a 223/556 magazine, and here you are posting the exact same language they used as a defense lol

The "Canadian Law Comments" section says for FRT #121656.

In the case of AR platform rifles chambered for the 50 Beowulf calibre, the magazine is adapted from the original 5.56x45 NATO version of the magazine but the ability of the magazine to perform as originally designed has not been compromised by the adaption. As a result such magazines are prohibited if they contain more than five 5.56x45 NATO cartridges. The magazines are in effect dual calibre magazines and are prohibited if they exceed five shots capacity of either calibre. An AR platform magazine limited to no more than five 5.56x45 NATO (223 Remington) cartridges will hold no more than two 50 Beowulf cartridges.

 

[Daver_II]

Hey here is a logic problem for you...

If you have a prohibit pistol "modified" to have a longer barrel.... it no longer meets the definition of prohibited firearm... yes? It becomes restricted yes?
Maybe a walther PPK? Yes?

Ok,

Now we modify a 30 round magazine to be legal by only holding 5 rounds yes? ok.. following so far?


Now a manufacturer comes along and designs a new cartridge ... and modifies a rifle to chamber it.... then that manufacturer MANUFACTURES a magazine for that rifle...

4. Magazines designed for one firearm but used in a different firearm

The maximum permitted capacity of a magazine is determined by the kind of firearm it is designed or manufactured for use in and not the kind of firearm it might actually be used in. As a consequence, the maximum permitted capacity remains the same regardless of which firearm it might be used in."

Which in this case IS the Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf rifle...

And under that definition of the law.... Actual LAW.... not somebody's opinion.... it does not matter how many rounds of another caliber fit in, or function from, that magazine.


My alexander Arms magazines Are manufactured for the Alexander arms rifle.... they are marked as such, and that is why they were made...

 

[Brian46]

Hey here is a logic problem for you...

If you have a prohibit pistol "modified" to have a longer barrel.... it no longer meets the definition of prohibited firearm... yes? It becomes restricted yes?...

Depends on the pistol, not everything is prohibited by barrel length alone

 

[Daver_II]

Depends on the pistol, not everything is prohibited by barrel length alone

The specific example is a Walther PPK.... And yes... Brian... It is not about the example... it is about the concept which has seemingly gone completely over your head.

But sure, Don't quote that part of my post... it doesn't support you, so feel free to leave it out.

 

[Suther]

Hey here is a logic problem for you...

If you have a prohibit pistol "modified" to have a longer barrel.... it no longer meets the definition of prohibited firearm... yes? It becomes restricted yes?
Maybe a walther PPK? Yes?

Ok,

Now we modify a 30 round magazine to be legal by only holding 5 rounds yes? ok.. following so far?


Now a manufacturer comes along and designs a new cartridge ... and modifies a rifle to chamber it.... then that manufacturer MANUFACTURES a magazine for that rifle...

4. Magazines designed for one firearm but used in a different firearm

The maximum permitted capacity of a magazine is determined by the kind of firearm it is designed or manufactured for use in and not the kind of firearm it might actually be used in. As a consequence, the maximum permitted capacity remains the same regardless of which firearm it might be used in."

Which in this case IS the Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf rifle...

And under that definition of the law.... Actual LAW.... not somebody's opinion.... it does not matter how many rounds of another caliber fit in, or function from, that magazine.


My alexander Arms magazines Are manufactured for the Alexander arms rifle.... they are marked as such, and that is why they were made...

Designed OR manufactured. Doesn't matter what it was manufactured for if the original design is a 556 mag.

The RCMP are basically saying the 50 Beo Mag isn't dissimilar enough to be considered its own design.

 

[Brian46]

Now a manufacturer comes along and designs a new cartridge ... and modifies a rifle to chamber it.... then that manufacturer MANUFACTURES a magazine for that rifle...

do you have documentation to back up what you are saying? I have been unable to get anything in writing.

What I have heard is that if the R+D of the 50 beowulf mag was to come out in writing it would be that a regular 223/556 stanag mag was taken and modified until the reliability was such that it was acceptable to the manufacturer of the rifle.

This is where I stopped looking into it any further

 

[Daver_II]

Designed OR manufactured. Doesn't matter what it was manufactured for if the original design is a 556 mag.

The RCMP are basically saying the 50 Beo Mag isn't dissimilar enough to be considered its own design.

That isn't the definition of the word "OR" that I was taught.... when it comes to the law, "And" and "or" are usually pretty specific.

Also when reading that snippet of the law, you could argue that it was in fact designed, and manufactured for the .50 Beowulf rifle.

I understand your point, I honestly do, however I certainly disagree with it.



Another point I would like to submit, is that there is proof that under the current wording of the law, these magazines were sold legally in Canada.

So, if they were legal under this working of the law, they are still legal under this wording of the law.

And correct me if I am wrong, but you cannot be convicted of something you did while it was legal.

 

[Daver_II]

do you have documentation to back up what you are saying? I have been unable to get anything in writing.

What I have heard is that if the R+D of the 50 beowulf mag was to come out in writing it would be that a regular 223/556 stanag mag was taken and modified until the reliability was such that it was acceptable to the manufacturer of the rifle.

This is where I stopped looking into it any further

..... The manufacturer of my magazine was AA.... unless they marked it .50 Beowulf before they invented .50 Beowulf...

What are you asking... because it sounds like you are asking: "can you prove that AA manufactured the magazine for .50 Beowulf?"

to which my reply would be YES, it is marked by the manufacturer or subcontractor (according to the manufacturers specs) as a .50 beowulf magazine for Alexander Arms.

 

[LeadMonkey]

...

 

[Brian46]

..... The manufacturer of my magazine was AA.... unless they marked it .50 Beowulf before they invented .50 Beowulf...

What are you asking... because it sounds like you are asking: "can you prove that AA manufactured the magazine for .50 Beowulf?"

to which my reply would be YES, it is marked by the manufacturer or subcontractor (according to the manufacturers specs) as a .50 beowulf magazine for Alexander Arms.

No, I am asking can you prove AA did not adapt the magazine from a 223/556 magazine during its design.

Sure they manufactured their own branded one for sale after the R+D, they even trademarked the name in the usa so nobody else can make it without paying royalties (c products never sold a 50 beowulf mag according to their website or if you call them asking for specifications like I did)