NEW M305 broke the bolt!

[RRH.01]

Oh là là ! Oh là là ! 45ACPKING is now spewing out ignorant comments ? Take a look at his post numbers, mostly on the M14 Platform. Maybe you should read them all before dropping your gloves against him ... He deserves more respect.

And I thought that I had seen it all. Obviously, despite my old age, I am not old enough - I guess.

When 45ACPKING speaks, you listen, c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y.

Its not at all about what he knows, its how he carries himself. Respect is not earned through post counts or sign up dates. Nor is it earned by spouting off at someone whom he doesn't know, and has zero knowledge of that individuals own knowledge on the matter, "do you have any real knowledge and experience with the M14 platform ? if not , pipe down and let the rest of us who do , offer our thoughts." and then following it up with nothing but guesses and hearsay.

"I can say without a doubt, that these suspect bolts are either the rejects from previous years manufacture...... or somewhere in china , they are manufacturing new bolts."

"Someone out there knows, but I don't."

" something changed after 2009"

"What I do know is that a fella......dropped some info on me back in 2010. I was told that....."

Almost sad seeing some of the awesome DIY mod stocks done up on here for well under half the price that he hosed guys for years on those cobbled together stocks.

The US GI Garand bolts were quite hard and I can't see the US GI M14 bolts deviating too much from this. I'm away from my books for a while, so I can't verify steel composition or hardness specs. Who knows about the Norinco stuff though.

Your typing this from the biggest "book" ever created

Bolt material - 8620H alloy steel except resulphurized content at 0.035 % to 0.50 % that is gun quality specification per ASTM A304, A322, or A331. Hardenability of steel shall be controlled as required to suit manufacturer’s heat treatment process and to assure that the specified mandatory physical properties are met. Austenitic grain size is 5 to 8.

As of January 1962 (Revision H of the drawing would have been in effect), the heat treat requirements for the M14 bolt were:

Surface - 54 to 59 HRC
Core - 35 to 42 HRC
Case depth - 0.015 " to 0.020 "
Temper temperature - 425 degrees F maximum
Core structure - 10 % free ferrite maximum

The final heat treat requirements appear to have been settled on with Revision L issued in November 1963:

Surface - 66 to 71 HRD (equivalent to 54 to 60 HRC)
Core - 33 to 42 HRC
Case depth - 0.012 " to 0.018 "
Temper temperature - 350 to 450 degrees F
Core structure - 10 % free ferrite maximum

 

[RRH.01]

.....

 

[Chemist]

I tried posting photos...doesn't work... It is the exact same failure as this post, wich got great photos:


https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...953-So-this-just-happened-Game-over-man-gt-lt

I see on his pictures the same coarse steel grain on the fractured faces as well. Upon fracture the extractor spring went who knows where.

I was shooting aguila 7.62X51 FMJ 150gr:
https://www.theammosource.com/store...ucts_id=5576&zenid=i6d4nhbeoh1evgk7mp0fpd85t0

Nothing too exotic...headstamped 16 wich I guess is the production year. Shot some 17 previously too.

I disasembled and cleaned the gun when I receieved it (was pretty oily), but I didn't go crazy about it with solvents and all...I basically just wiped everything dry and oiled back the moving parts.

I have to say that part of the bolt is under considerable stress in pretty much all directions, op rod slamming against it and all, its responsible for all the bolt movement. But then I would be willing to bet its more of a material issue than a design issue, that particular design having quite the track record...

For the record SFRC won't take charge of the warranty, they are refering me to north sylva. Ill see where this goes...

As we told you they are the warranty center for these. You didn’t buy it last week, you bought it almost three months ago.

Ryan

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

Your typing this from the biggest "book" ever created

Bolt material - 8620H alloy steel except resulphurized content at 0.035 % to 0.50 % that is gun quality specification per ASTM A304, A322, or A331. Hardenability of steel shall be controlled as required to suit manufacturer’s heat treatment process and to assure that the specified mandatory physical properties are met. Austenitic grain size is 5 to 8.


The final heat treat requirements appear to have been settled on with Revision L issued in November 1963:

Surface - 66 to 71 HRD (equivalent to 54 to 60 HRC)
Core - 33 to 42 HRC
Case depth - 0.012 " to 0.018 "
Temper temperature - 350 to 450 degrees F
Core structure - 10 % free ferrite maximum

This whole thread is about exactly this. How closely did the Chinese follow the USGI spec?

And, as a CGN'er with a couple lifetimes wasted reading and responding to posts, the old timers don't like newbies snapping at their heels over grammar or tone. We aren't here for the niceties. A question was asked, and the most experienced man on the group answered. But I guess he wasn't polite enough for you, so you had to call him names. You'll learn the etiquette around here sooner or later.

 

[RRH.01]

This whole thread is about exactly this. How closely did the Chinese follow the USGI spec?

And, as a CGN'er with a couple lifetimes wasted reading and responding to posts, the old timers don't like newbies snapping at their heels over grammar or tone. We aren't here for the niceties. A question was asked, and the most experienced man on the group answered. But I guess he wasn't polite enough for you, so you had to call him names. You'll learn the etiquette around here sooner or later.

Indeed it is, that information was for purple who was unsure at this time of the original specs. I do not know the answer to the OPs question, neither did Thomas. His posts contained nothing that could be construed as factual answer relevant to "how close did the Chinese follow the usgi spec" in fact it was more like ""Someone out there knows, but I don't." Besides, the post he jumped on was true and had valid questions, his BS added nothing but his ego. That is unfortunate you've spent so much time honestly. Its posts like his, and yours about not being macho enough to handle feelings that further contributes to this forum being one of the most lacking in information, ego driven, childish forums out there. Ive spent the last decade on a rig floor, I handle my feelings just fine

 

[Rocket Surgery]

I'll help you guys out on some internet skills which have been commonly used by kids since the 1990s:

Go to an image hosting site like imgur.com

Upload your image

Use the link the site provides, then paste it into your post. There's a button that says "Insert Image"

voila, now you can practice typing without looking down.

 

[RRH.01]

I'll help you guys out on some internet skills which have been commonly used by kids since the 1990s:

Go to an image hosting site like imgur.com

Upload your image

Use the link the site provides, then paste it into your post. There's a button that says "Insert Image"

voila, now you can practice typing without looking down.

Sounds like rocket surgery to me.

 

[Hitzy]

From North Sylva...good to know, those would be the ones to avoid then, because the customer service from there is garbage.

OP, please start a thread in North Sylva's forum once you figure out how to post pics so we can all follow along in the warranty/replacement/repair. Also ask them how many have blown up to date.

 

[Hitzy]

As we told you they are the warranty center for these. You didn’t buy it last week, you bought it almost three months ago.

Ryan

Last week or 3 months, what's the difference? Do you offer a 1 week warranty on these or something, or is it all "sorry, we only want your money, go see the importer if you have any problems" like Cabella's and the other big box stores.
Who imports Aguila? No doubt fingers will be pointed at both in this case.

Only 2 shops in Canada worth buying Chinese firearms from, CanAm and disgraced dealer Marstar...at least THEY provide the warranty coverage and will make things right.

I guess you are too busy trying to save NEA/BCL's reputation to bother with this client. That seems to be a full time job lol.

 

[Chemist]

They both import their own Norinco products for the most part so they are the warranty centers for them. North Sylva imports pretty much every other product and they are the warranty center for those products. They also import most of the Aquila in the country as well.

Last week or 3 months, what's the difference? Do you offer a 1 week warranty on these or something, or is it all "sorry, we only want your money, go see the importer if you have any problems" like Cabella's and the other big box stores.
Who imports Aguila? No doubt fingers will be pointed at both in this case.

Only 2 shops in Canada worth buying Chinese firearms from, CanAm and disgraced dealer Marstar...at least THEY provide the warranty coverage and will make things right.

I guess you are too busy trying to save NEA/BCL's reputation to bother with this client. That seems to be a full time job lol.

 

[Apple tree]

As we told you they are the warranty center for these. You didn’t buy it last week, you bought it almost three months ago.

Ryan

3 month = new. It's not milk its a gun. If the engine on the car I bought last summer blew up, Id say the engine on my new car blew up. Its new because I bought it new from the dealer and would expect it to run 10 years and it ran less than one.

It's nothing against you, and I did say previously I had good experience with your customer service, wich is true! Just not this time lol

In my experience, being referred to the importer is always bad. For one I now have to talk to people I never dealt with for a problem I don't know why they would care about...Im your customer, not theirs. This means I don't pay their invoices, YOU do. Why would they care about me?

This is why I said we will see where this goes...I might be surprised! But past experiences with this kind of reference to my supplier's supplier were never good...

Also I didn't mean to make the whole customer service thing public I just wanted to report the failure...sorry about that

 

[Redblack]

Sfrc wouldn’t take my rifle back when it was less than a week old and exchange it for another one they had in stock, there is no warranty with them. After they have your money you deal with the distributor for any issues. It seems like that they way most shops operate now.

 

[beltfed]

I’ve bought a number of household items and appliances in the last year where I had issues and the retailer bucked it back to the manufacturer or distributor. This type of warranty organization is not uncommon.

 

[Cameron SS]

Another week, another broken M305 thread. Colour me shocked.

For all the ranting and raving the gun grabbers do about banning guns for public safety reasons, you would think purely from a consumer protection point of view the RCMP would call out firearms manufacturers with proven records of dubious firearms prone to failure and should at least trigger some kind of notice to the public.

 

[Hitzy]

Historically the Nork M14's (and AR15) clones have been really well made. Many of the parts on my M14 have no tool marks at all, there are no sharp edges, the actual metal manufacturing is very good. Zero reason to buy a Nork AR15 however when there are US made ones cheaper or same price.
What I've seen the last few years hasn't been so great. The 1911's while rough, were 100% forged and milled up until a few years ago. The ones today are full of MIM and cast parts. MIM and cast I can live with from USA/Philippines etc, but I do not trust the Chinese have this sorted out yet. May even find those new M14's have cast bolts which is why they failed... who knows.
I'm still a little leary of my 2013 Marstar M305, but surprisingly the sights are tight, trigger group looks great, all the small parts are well done, shoots well so far but only around 250 down the pipe.
Looks every bit as good as the 2007 I had many years ago.

 

[45ACPKING]

Post count or particular knowledge on one subject does not excuse poor behaviour.

OP - what were you shooting for ammo? Did you complete a detailed strip and cleaning of the rifle including the bolt?
If you can, post a photo of the bolt, the receiver and the cartridge or remains if you can.

I just get frustrated when people start offering thier advice when I can read thier post and know they haven't a fuggen clue what they are posting about.
Sorry if my posts are viewed as "poor behavior" LOL seriously?
I have said it many times on this site..... I'm an azzhole..... I don't suffer fools and thier misinformation
so if yer gonna post advice or info on these rifles.... the M14 platform..... just know that I'm in the back ground ready to set you straight if yer spewing garbage info.

someone has to do it.... may as well be me

 

[45ACPKING]

Its not at all about what he knows, its how he carries himself. Respect is not earned through post counts or sign up dates. Nor is it earned by spouting off at someone whom he doesn't know, and has zero knowledge of that individuals own knowledge on the matter, "do you have any real knowledge and experience with the M14 platform ? if not , pipe down and let the rest of us who do , offer our thoughts." and then following it up with nothing but guesses and hearsay.

"I can say without a doubt, that these suspect bolts are either the rejects from previous years manufacture...... or somewhere in china , they are manufacturing new bolts."

"Someone out there knows, but I don't."

" something changed after 2009"

"What I do know is that a fella......dropped some info on me back in 2010. I was told that....."

Almost sad seeing some of the awesome DIY mod stocks done up on here for well under half the price that he hosed guys for years on those cobbled together stocks.



Your typing this from the biggest "book" ever created

Bolt material - 8620H alloy steel except resulphurized content at 0.035 % to 0.50 % that is gun quality specification per ASTM A304, A322, or A331. Hardenability of steel shall be controlled as required to suit manufacturer’s heat treatment process and to assure that the specified mandatory physical properties are met. Austenitic grain size is 5 to 8.

As of January 1962 (Revision H of the drawing would have been in effect), the heat treat requirements for the M14 bolt were:

Surface - 54 to 59 HRC
Core - 35 to 42 HRC
Case depth - 0.015 " to 0.020 "
Temper temperature - 425 degrees F maximum
Core structure - 10 % free ferrite maximum

The final heat treat requirements appear to have been settled on with Revision L issued in November 1963:

Surface - 66 to 71 HRD (equivalent to 54 to 60 HRC)
Core - 33 to 42 HRC
Case depth - 0.012 " to 0.018 "
Temper temperature - 350 to 450 degrees F
Core structure - 10 % free ferrite maximum

seriously? do I care if you respect me hahaha get over yourself
as for stocks.... I made 75 mod stocks.... from plastic stocks..... not one returned
I made 150+ mod stocks with USGI stocks and..... not one returned
I made my own molds and went on to manufacture over 300 carbon fiber composite stocks.... from scratch.... and only ONE was ever returned for warranty (member Chris S).
By the way.... every stock I made has a lifetime warranty.... another reason I keep a presence on CGN.... so those folks can have a way to reach me if thier stock fails..... my inbox is empty still....
I've contributed more valuable M14 information to this site than any other member in CGN history..... Well Barney has certainly met me 1/2 way there.

So.... this is not a place i come to make friends or look for internet respect.... I don't give a rats azz.
I only come here when I'm bored these days and seeing the little snowflakes getting upset because "45acpking was rude" kinda cracks me up LOL

there's a reason all the experienced and knowledgeable folks leave this site..... maybe I'll join them and leave you all with the posers. LOL

 

[Snowy Owl]

seriously? do I care if you respect me hahaha get over yourself
as for stocks.... I made 75 mod stocks.... from plastic stocks..... not one returned
I made 150+ mod stocks with USGI stocks and..... not one returned
I made my own molds and went on to manufacture over 300 carbon fiber composite stocks.... from scratch.... and only ONE was ever returned for warranty (member Chris S).
By the way.... every stock I made has a lifetime warranty.... another reason I keep a presence on CGN.... so those folks can have a way to reach me if thier stock fails..... my inbox is empty still....
I've contributed more valuable M14 information to this site than any other member in CGN history..... Well Barney has certainly met me 1/2 way there.

So.... this is not a place i come to make friends or look for internet respect.... I don't give a rats azz.
I only come here when I'm bored these days and seeing the little snowflakes getting upset because "45acpking was rude" kinda cracks me up LOL

there's a reason all the experienced and knowledgeable folks leave this site..... maybe I'll join them and leave you all with the posers. LOL

45ACPKING,

You do as you see fit but, I, for one, am asking you NOT to leave CGN and I am quite sure that hundreds of M14 type rifle afficionados agree with me. I always await your advice and opinion whenever a problem arises with one of my favorite battle rifles.

Sure, there are other M14 type rifle experts on the CGN but we never had too many - at least, as far as I know !

Apparently, some members here do not realize that your advice is always "free". Why not just take it ??? Some things elude me ...

 

[goldenbb]

Hi!

I broke the bolt on a new M305 about 100 rounds in! The failure occured in a fairly stong part, too, right behing the main locking lug, the one holding the roller. It looks like that's some pretty bad steel those chinese are shipping. That or it wasn't tempered right and was brittle. It doesn't skate a file though so I think its just bad steel.

Anybody seen that before?

Apple Tree,
Sorry for you troubles. Glad you are OK. A couple of questions: First did your left bolt lug have good contact with the receiver? If not then the right lug was under tremendous stress. Even the best made bolt would eventually fail. Any wear on the left lug? Pictures of this lug would be nice. Second did you load the round that caused the damage from the magazine? Rounds loaded manually into the chamber can cause out of battery explosions. Hope you get this problem sorted before fair weather arrives.

 

[goldenbb]

It disappoints me to see important threads like this disintegrate into personal attacks. We are all here to learn and help one another. Some have deep knowledge and understanding of this platform and others not so much. What we do have in common is that we love the M14/M1A/M305 and want others to safely enjoy it as well. If we don't look out for one another who will?

Life is short, why bash one another? If you think you were bashed well toughen up. We are men not "snow flakes". Stick to the subject matter.

Safe shooting.