Schultz & Larsen M88
- Thread starter Loose-Cannon
- Start date
Im starting to think this barreled receiver is not of an m88.... I have searched high/low all over the worlds internet looking at them and not a single m88 is dovetailed, has the step, or curved bolt handle.
Perhaps it's not an M88. Experienced folks on Rimfire Central, however, gave the opinion that it was. Of course such opinions are not written in stone. If it's not an M88, then it would be a Schultz and Larsen barreled action that has yet to be identified. Is anyone aware of a Schultz and Larsen small bore rifle with a small receiver like the M70/77 (as opposed to the larger ones found on rifles such as the M47 or M61) but is not an M70/77 or an M88? Unfortunately there were probably more non-original M88's made than of M88's that are genuinely and entirely new rifles made between 1988 and 1992. In other words, a lot of M88's seem to have been fashioned from existing stock of M70/77 receivers and barrels.
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I suspect that the true M88 has a slimmer barrel to meet UIT competition weight rules. It may also have an entirely new receiver and trigger. In any case, what is definitely different is the stock. It seems a little odd if that were the major difference, in addition to perhaps a different trigger group.
The best trigger on the M70/77 was the adjustable trigger group modified to look like the first shown below; the typical M70/77 trigger looked like the one in the second photo. The trigger group in the "mystery" barreled action shown in the third photo is either a 100% M88 or some entirely different small receiver Schultz and Larsen small size .22LR receiver. In any event, only a relatively small number of M88's were made, possibly as low as twenty eight. See h t t p://billard85.########.ca/
The best trigger on the M70/77 was the adjustable trigger group modified to look like the first shown below; the typical M70/77 trigger looked like the one in the second photo. The trigger group in the "mystery" barreled action shown in the third photo is either a 100% M88 or some entirely different small receiver Schultz and Larsen small size .22LR receiver. In any event, only a relatively small number of M88's were made, possibly as low as twenty eight. See h t t p://billard85.########.ca/
First time I have read anyone claim a low number like 23. It seems highly unlikely to me they would tool up for a completely different receiver having a smaller locking lug, and reduce the diameter of the barrel for 23 guns as they already had dedicated ISU rifles. I really doubt a M70 in an M88 stock would be over weight, and I especially doubt it would weigh more then my BSA MarkV and the Tiaga-2.
Unfortunately.. what we dont know is what we dont know. I do know I have read alot of foreign internet pages and none of them suggest anything of the sort regarding changes such as this, and you would think it to be an important characteristic.
In addition, the stocks were made in Germany.
Unfortunately.. what we dont know is what we dont know. I do know I have read alot of foreign internet pages and none of them suggest anything of the sort regarding changes such as this, and you would think it to be an important characteristic.
In addition, the stocks were made in Germany.
In fact, the action you reference looks more like a dovetailed version of this.... Please note the barrel step, angled bolt handle, and the pivoting arm on the right side as a bolt release. The trigger may in fact be a drop-in replacement and not made by S&L.
The stock maker's location is not relevant, is it? The number of M88's made that I referred to was twenty eight, not twenty three. The source of my information, which I referenced above, does not claim to be definitive, but it will surely add to your information base.
As for tooling up to make a new rifle, the M88, this was done when Schultz and Larsen were facing increasing viability difficulties. The last M88 was made in December 1992. In 1994 Schultz and Larsen, as a family owned company, shut its doors. Perhaps S&L hoped to rejuvenate sales with a new model rifle, one that could attract rifle shooters who would otherwise be buying German-made rifles such as Anschutz. They would also have sought to utilize existing stock in times of financial troubles.
In any case, if the barreled action my previous posts have shown is not an M88, then what is it? It is probably not an M24 as suggested above, however, it is possible, though unlikely, that it is a one-off, a case in which a gun owner machined dovetail grooves into a S&L receiver and attached a slimmed down barrel to it. I say unlikely because the front sight configuration on the barrel would date it much later. Nevertheless, there is at least one example of a M70 with a fluted barrel, something which almost certainly was done by someone after the rifle left the S&L factory.
For other opinions on the "mystery" barreled action, see h t t p://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1057026
For other history, see h t t p://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?542-Schultz-amp-Larsen-M-24-History
But as you say, we don't know what we don't know. What we do know is that M88's were made in two ways: new stocks with older barreled actions and possibly triggers and new stocks with new barreled actions and triggers.
Here's a photo of the "mystery" barreled action front sight
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Just thought people would be interested. :/
I dunno, but I usually reserve making any conclusions with next to nothing to go on. As stated, I have seen just about every m88 ever posted on the web and NONE are like the mystery action. There is also a lot of chatter, but zero mentions of drastic changes as shown on the mystery action.
I would lean more towards it being something none of us are familiar with. How do we know thats not a S&L barrel used on some custom receiver?.
OR, it could be an earlier model that has been dovetailed with a drop-in trigger replacement. I see some bluing issues at the bottom area af the receiver, and is that a pinned barrel?
My thinking is that the vast majority of M88's included existing S&L M70/77 receivers and barrels, while a small number, perhaps a very small number, were made of new receivers and barrels. It's also possible that existing M70/77 receivers were simply modified for M88 use. All M88's are distinguished by the new stock configuration. Whether this is in fact correct is unclear.
It is indeed somewhat of a mystery, but over on RFC one poster said he had two like it and he understood they were the UIT 88 model. As for the suggestion that it might be a custom receiver, that notion can be safely dismissed. The receiver has the name Schultz and Larsen stamped on it, although the serial number is sufficiently low to only add to the mystery.
The M88 had a trigger improvement over its predecessors, of course whether it is the replacement that's on the mystery barreled action is unknown as of this time.
Schultz and Larsen clearly pinned at least some of its barrels. Here is one from a M70 or 77 that is pinned and below one that is unpinned. Barrel lugs also changed over time.
These M70/77 rifles are a mix of barrels, receivers, sights, triggers, and in even stocks.
By your RFC link.... http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1057026
Nobody knows what this thing is other then one "I heard it from by brothers, wifes, cousins, sister in-law", and it dont sound like he has a stocks for the two either.
Nobody knows what this thing is other then one "I heard it from by brothers, wifes, cousins, sister in-law", and it dont sound like he has a stocks for the two either.
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The Danish word (name?) Rødding means "char" in English (according to Google). Perhaps it's a club name with a number assigned to the rifle. The stickers may indicate it was used in some level of competition in the given years. Many of the S&L M70 variants available here have similar stickers.
It appears the (Rodding) portion is a town in DK but I don't know the meaning of the #5 following it. Also, it would appear the stickers are some type of gov regulatory agency for firearms.... As if the stickers are applied when guns at a shooting club are inspected for compliance.
My thinking is that the vast majority of M88's included existing S&L M70/77 receivers and barrels, while a small number, perhaps a very small number, were made of new receivers and barrels. It's also possible that existing M70/77 receivers were simply modified for M88 use. All M88's are distinguished by the new stock configuration. Whether this is in fact correct is unclear.
It is indeed somewhat of a mystery, but over on RFC one poster said he had two like it and he understood they were the UIT 88 model. As for the suggestion that it might be a custom receiver, that notion can be safely dismissed. The receiver has the name Schultz and Larsen stamped on it, although the serial number is sufficiently low to only add to the mystery.
The M88 had a trigger improvement over its predecessors, of course whether it is the replacement that's on the mystery barreled action is unknown as of this time.
Schultz and Larsen clearly pinned at least some of its barrels. Here is one from a M70 or 77 that is pinned and below one that is unpinned. Barrel lugs also changed over time.
These M70/77 rifles are a mix of barrels, receivers, sights, triggers, and in even stocks.
If that bottom one has the extractor on the left side of the bolt it pre-dates the M70's.
The bolt may well pre-date the M70. As noted above, and as Loose Cannon's M88 shows, these rifles are often a mix of parts from different models. The trigger certainly is M70 or M77.
