Asking For Scope Recommendations For 6.5 Creedmoor

Max Owner

Max Owner

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
31   0   0
Location
Displaced From South Western Ontario, To GP, Alber
Hey all.

Have a Savage Model 10 GRS on order. 6.5 Creedmoor. Wanna get it out to 2000 plus yards.

I'm out of touch with prices as I remember when Nightforce NXS scopes were $1800.....:eek:

First focal plane and target turrets. Budget is undetermined right now. MOA based scope. Gonna get some Near Manufacturing base (maybe rings) to help for elevation.

Thoughts?
 
Max Owner said:
Hey all.

Have a Savage Model 10 GRS on order. 6.5 Creedmoor. Wanna get it out to 2000 plus yards.

I'm out of touch with prices as I remember when Nightforce NXS scopes were $1800.....:eek:

First focal plane and target turrets. Budget is undetermined right now. MOA based scope. Gonna get some Near Manufacturing base (maybe rings) to help for elevation.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Lots of excellent products on the market right now, but budget certainly helps set the limits for where you can go with this. I think there are some exciting new releases for products coming at SHOT show to keep an eye on! Athlon and Delta Optical look like big contenders to the top tier glass market for 2018 with savings in the customers pockets
 
Last edited:
Go_Big_Tactical said:
Lots of excellent products on the market right now, but budget certainly helps set the limits for where you can go with this. I think there are some exciting new releases for products coming at SHOT show to keep an eye on! Athlon and Delta Optical look like big contenders in the top tier glass market for 2018 with savings in the customers pockets
Click to expand...

Athlon is not top tier glass. They are an intermediate tier of scope at best. To suggest that Athlon is in the same ranks as S&B, Nightforce, Khales, Steiner, etc. Is disingenuous.

Never heard of Delta. They may be intermediate tier as well.
 
If you want to get out to 2,000+ yards, you are going to want a Christmas tree type reticle, as your scopes elevation will not get you there on it's own.

Get something with decent glass, and a Christmas tree reticle. Nightforce with a Horus or Tremor reticle, Khales with an AMR, S&B with Horus, etc.

The Christmas tree reticle such as an AMR, Horus, Tremor, etc. is needed as you are going to have to hold over a lot of elevation AND wind (people seem to forget about the wind) at those distances.

When shooting a 6.5 creedmoor at 2,200 yards, I was holding off into "dead space" with a skmr3 reticle. It was a challenge, I sure would have loved to have windage holds on the reticle.

You will want at minimum a 20 MOA base. Adjustable rings such as the Ivey would help a lot as well.
 
kthomas said:
Athlon is not top tier glass. They are an intermediate tier of scope at best. To suggest that Athlon is in the same ranks as S&B, Nightforce, Khales, Steiner, etc. Is disingenuous.

Never heard of Delta. They may be intermediate tier as well.
Click to expand...

For accuracy my post should have said "to" and not "in" however both the Athlon Cronus and Delta Stryker will be contenders to the top tier manufacturers being Kahles, Schmidt & Bender, etc offering an excellent product at a much lower price point. If you haven't heard of either of these yet I suggest you will very soon as reviews start coming out. There are several threads on the Delta Stryker already on CGN
 
Last edited:
Go_Big_Tactical said:
For accuracy my post should have said "to" and not "in" however both the Athlon Cronus and Delta Stryker will be contenders to the top tier manufacturers being Kahles, Schmidt & Bender, etc offering an excellent product at a much lower price point. If you haven't heard of either of these yet I suggest you will very soon as reviews start coming out. There are several threads on the Delta Stryker already on CGN
Click to expand...

You must go to the same sales school as Jerry Teo. Apparently the Athlon spotter is going to be "The BEST field spotter of 2018" - guess he's never heard of Swaro or the other top end brands.

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. That cost savings is coming from somewhere. Athlon or Delta haven't discovered any magical manufacturing process that creates a top end product at a budget price. Everything is a compromise, and they haven't cracked any code that the 100 year old optics companies haven't.

And trust me, I know all about Athlon optics. Athlon gave out a bunch of free scopes for "testing" and reviews, so their is no shortage of "team Athlon" reviews on the internet. Of course, it's the best scope ever - but hey, maybe if I had no integrity and got a scope for free I would be doing the same thing. Athlon shooters are the crossfitters of the precision rifle world. You can't go anywhere on social media these days without hearing about "WOD's" or Athlon scopes.
 
kthomas said:
You must go to the same sales school as Jerry Teo. Apparently the Athlon spotter is going to be "The BEST field spotter of 2018" - guess he's never heard of Swaro or the other top end brands.

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. That cost savings is coming from somewhere. Athlon or Delta haven't discovered any magical manufacturing process that creates a top end product at a budget price. Everything is a compromise, and they haven't cracked any code that the 100 year old optics companies haven't.

And trust me, I know all about Athlon optics. Athlon gave out a bunch of free scopes for "testing" and reviews, so their is no shortage of "team Athlon" reviews on the internet. Of course, it's the best scope ever - but hey, maybe if I had no integrity and got a scope for free I would be doing the same thing. Athlon shooters are the crossfitters of the precision rifle world. You can't go anywhere on social media these days without hearing about "WOD's" or Athlon scopes.
Click to expand...

Perhaps if you inquire with the OP about his budget you'll find out that what your suggesting doesn't work. No need to point fingers at myself or Jerry, or anyone else for that matter, because they have a different opinion than you. Frankly what I'm suggesting falls within the budget that the OP is looking for, and gives him the best bang for his buck. Not everyone has $3500-$4000+ to spend on optics (like the ones you suggested... I know that I carry Schmidt & Bender). If these companies can get great glass and features for $2500 and under, then my hats off to them.

To the OP, best of luck in your search!
 
Budget is undetermined right now - straight from the OP's post.

He wants to shoot ELR with a short action caliber, if you can afford it, top quality glass is only going to help in that endeavor. At the end of the day, if he decides that an Athlon scope checks all the boxes for him, then great. But you can't say that Athlon is as good as the other top tier companies. That's just not true.
 
kthomas said:
Budget is undetermined right now - straight from the OP's post.

He wants to shoot ELR with a short action caliber, if you can afford it, top quality glass is only going to help in that endeavor. At the end of the day, if he decides that an Athlon scope checks all the boxes for him, then great. But you can't say that Athlon is as good as the other top tier companies. That's just not true.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the OP will clarify when he has time.

Being competitive because you offer excellent features at an affordable price point isn't being the same, I agree.
 
I just purchased a Kahles 624I with the SKMR3 for my creedmoor. I couldn’t be happier but I’ve never owned an optic of this caliber so no surprise I’m impressed. I don’t see an issue with the SKMR3 for using hold over at extreme ranges, if you are in between Mils just adjust your turret so you can use the windage marks on the next full mil.
 
Last edited:
Camoman1 said:
I just purchased a Kahles 624I with the SKMR3 for my creedmoor. I couldn’t be happier but I’ve never owned an optic of this caliber so no surprise I’m impressed. I don’t see an issue with the SKMR3 for using hold over at extreme ranges, if you are in between Mils just adjust your turret so you can use the windage marks on the best full mil.
Click to expand...

Gets a bit difficult when you dial all the elevation on your scope, have to hold over an additional 20, and hold ~9 mils for wind. You run out of turret and you are still in dead space. Not that it would matter much in this situation as you wouldn't have enough windage anyways, but I am never one to advise dialing wind. Wind is too dynamic, and I've seen LOTS of people miss because of misdialed windage, improper windage dialed, forgetting that they dialed windage, etc.

I love the SKMR3 reticle, it's one of my favorite reticles, but it's not the best for true ELR shooting.

*Edit - This is just based on my own experience taking the 6.5 creedmoor past 2,000 yards, using a K624i with a SKMR3 reticle. The SKMR3 works with this cartridge until you get past around ~1,900 yards. Past 1,900 yards, the ballistics of the 6.5 creedmoor starts to decay rapidly, requiring lots of elevation and lots of windage. I believe I was around ~37 mils of elevation and ~9 mils of windage at 2,200 yards.
 
Last edited:
kthomas said:
Gets a bit difficult when you dial all the elevation on your scope, have to hold over an additional 20, and hold ~9 mils for wind. You run out of turret and you are still in dead space. Not that it would matter much in this situation as you wouldn't have enough windage anyways, but I am never one to advise dialing wind. Wind is too dynamic, and I've seen LOTS of people miss because of misdialed windage, improper windage dialed, forgetting that they dialed windage, etc.

I love the SKMR3 reticle, it's one of my favorite reticles, but it's not the best for true ELR shooting.

*Edit - This is just based on my own experience taking the 6.5 creedmoor past 2,000 yards, using a K624i with a SKMR3 reticle. The SKMR3 works with this cartridge until you get past around ~1,900 yards. Past 1,900 yards, the ballistics of the 6.5 creedmoor starts to decay rapidly, requiring lots of elevation and lots of windage. I believe I was around ~37 mils of elevation and ~9 mils of windage at 2,200 yards.
Click to expand...

Yes 37 Mils is more than I was taking into thought
 
Just my thoughts:

1. For 2000 yards and further a NF BEAST is hard to beat because it has 120MOA/34.9MIL of internal adjustment.
2. Why even bother to shoot 2000 yards with 6.5 Creedmoor? Bullet velocity drops to sub-sonic somewhere between the 1,200-and 1,400-yard targets. Things become a bit less predictable after that, to say the least. If I want to shoot up to 2000 yards, I would buy a .338 Lapua or 50BMG. They are proven ELR cartridges.
 
Hey guys.

So far I’m thinking $2500 plus “some”

ISnipe said I would need 130ish MOA to reach 2000 yards. And I do have a 338 Lapua and access to 2640 yards. Ranged by GPS.

As far as I’m concerned no needs to convince me or anyone else of anything. I did some Google ing this morning and found starting blind was frustrating for scope researching.

Thank you all for the replies.

It’s very possible I need to warm myself up to a higher price range. Maybe buy an intermediate scope to get started and put it on another rifle later. May be an option......
 
KT I really have issues with your tone and language regarding certain people on this site that you choose to disagree with. If you can't be pleasant then please stay off this site totally. You do a disservice to the people and culture on here and that is why this site has lost a great deal of very experienced people. I find you popping up on various threads and expressing your slanted viewpoints and attacking people simply because you don't agree with them. After reading a lot about what you say on various threads, I question your depth of experience and qualifications to discuss much. Obviously you haven't been shooting much or across a variety of disciplines.

Relating to this scope thread, there are a lot of things about a scope and it's manufacture that are important. Optics are interesting because there are two ways of looking at optics. One is, do you want to see the mirage or do you want to see through the mirage. Depending on what I am trying to achieve I find I use two different standards of glass. One is the "normal" non ED/HD glass and the other is the ED/HD glass. For certain applications "normal" glass maybe the preferred type. Depending on what you prefer, the Athlon type as you say "intermediate level" glass maybe the way to go over a March or say a Schmidt & Bender.

One other thing is construction. One match I was at a vendor was at a booth selling Schmidt & Bender, Nightforce and Sightron. When the guys inquired about the Schmidt & Bender's all he would say was that the last 6 he had sold all had to be returned to the factory for repairs right from new packaging. I personally have had to return 3 of 4 March scopes I purchased over the years. Right now testing is indicating that the Nightforce Comp series has POI shifting issues and Vortex has had issues with all their high end scopes. Leupold has had to recall entire production runs of "Top Tier" scopes. The only brand that seems not to have major issues is Sighttron which is the lowest priced of the lot of scopes. Therefore right now I have a real problem trying to decide on what scope to buy because I need 2 more and price or "top tier" scopes all seem to have problems and the factories seem reluctant to address these problems.

Price does not seem to be a good judge of which scope to buy as you maybe buying excellent glass but suspect mounting or erector systems. Other brands may have installed great mounting and internals but installed "lesser" glass but they don't fail.

Most of the top tier manufacturers buy their glass from a relatively few lens grinding and coating companies so between them the costs are similar. Same thing with the mechanicals. Therefore, they all try to balance out the features for a marketing price point. The "best" scope or spotting scope may simply be the "best" combination of features that work to achieve the end goal. I, for one, cannot use a Swaro spotting scope because the eyebox is too short for me. Therefore the Swaro is not the best for me although it has good glass.

Same thing with internal focusing of the scopes. I cannot use the Nightforce BR series scopes because the focus doesn't stay for me during a match and wanders around. Are both the Swar and Nightforce BR products bad? No they are excellent products that do not suit me.

When buying anything around firearms (as other things) you really need to understand the design parameters that they were built under to choose the "best" product for you and not simply relying on price. To argue anything else is just for the EGO factor and who has the larger thing.

However, I have only been shooting, testing, and teaching the use of firearms for more than 30 years. What do I know?
 
SteveB said:
KT I really have issues with your tone and language regarding certain people on this site that you choose to disagree with. If you can't be pleasant then please stay off this site totally. You do a disservice to the people and culture on here and that is why this site has lost a great deal of very experienced people. I find you popping up on various threads and expressing your slanted viewpoints and attacking people simply because you don't agree with them. After reading a lot about what you say on various threads, I question your depth of experience and qualifications to discuss much. Obviously you haven't been shooting much or across a variety of disciplines.

Relating to this scope thread, there are a lot of things about a scope and it's manufacture that are important. Optics are interesting because there are two ways of looking at optics. One is, do you want to see the mirage or do you want to see through the mirage. Depending on what I am trying to achieve I find I use two different standards of glass. One is the "normal" non ED/HD glass and the other is the ED/HD glass. For certain applications "normal" glass maybe the preferred type. Depending on what you prefer, the Athlon type as you say "intermediate level" glass maybe the way to go over a March or say a Schmidt & Bender.

One other thing is construction. One match I was at a vendor was at a booth selling Schmidt & Bender, Nightforce and Sightron. When the guys inquired about the Schmidt & Bender's all he would say was that the last 6 he had sold all had to be returned to the factory for repairs right from new packaging. I personally have had to return 3 of 4 March scopes I purchased over the years. Right now testing is indicating that the Nightforce Comp series has POI shifting issues and Vortex has had issues with all their high end scopes. Leupold has had to recall entire production runs of "Top Tier" scopes. The only brand that seems not to have major issues is Sighttron which is the lowest priced of the lot of scopes. Therefore right now I have a real problem trying to decide on what scope to buy because I need 2 more and price or "top tier" scopes all seem to have problems and the factories seem reluctant to address these problems.

Price does not seem to be a good judge of which scope to buy as you maybe buying excellent glass but suspect mounting or erector systems. Other brands may have installed great mounting and internals but installed "lesser" glass but they don't fail.

Most of the top tier manufacturers buy their glass from a relatively few lens grinding and coating companies so between them the costs are similar. Same thing with the mechanicals. Therefore, they all try to balance out the features for a marketing price point. The "best" scope or spotting scope may simply be the "best" combination of features that work to achieve the end goal. I, for one, cannot use a Swaro spotting scope because the eyebox is too short for me. Therefore the Swaro is not the best for me although it has good glass.

Same thing with internal focusing of the scopes. I cannot use the Nightforce BR series scopes because the focus doesn't stay for me during a match and wanders around. Are both the Swar and Nightforce BR products bad? No they are excellent products that do not suit me.

When buying anything around firearms (as other things) you really need to understand the design parameters that they were built under to choose the "best" product for you and not simply relying on price. To argue anything else is just for the EGO factor and who has the larger thing.

However, I have only been shooting, testing, and teaching the use of firearms for more than 30 years. What do I know?
Click to expand...

I am very passionate, and it comes through in my posts. Over the past few years, I have spent tens of thousands of dollars and many days on professional training down in the US at places like Rifles Only & K&M, as well as private instructions with a now Team AB ELR shooter. I have shot national level PRS matches, and multiple one day club PRS matches. The learning curve has been incredible, and its all because I seeked out professional training and went out and shot a number of competitions. You learn so much more when you pay for top tier training, and put your practice into effect at a match.

In that time, I have come to learn that many of the things that I have read on forums are misleading, and lots of times down right wrong. There is a lot of self proclaimed experts, who love to comment on shooting disciplines that they have never shot. It is very apparent, and I'm not the only one here who notices or is frustrated by it. A lot of people are being fed bad information, and its frustrating to see that. Some people do it because they simply don't have the experience to know any better, others do it because they know they know that they can make money off of those that don't know any better with their slick sales pitches.

The only things that I comment on now are things that I have had direct experience in. The Canadian firearm community is a frustrating one to be a part of, as we seem to be 10-15+ years behind the USA when it comes to precision rifle shooting. Ask any Canadian that has participated in a field precision rifle match (such as PRS or NRL) down in the USA - sadly CGN is considered a joke, due to such bad advice on this board. It's the blind leading the blind.

Through my experience I wanted to help others from making mistakes that I had to spend a lot of money myself to learn. But if you don't want that, that's fine, I'm more than okay with leaving this community.

Here is my parting advice for those that are willing to listen - be careful what you believe on forums, especially this one. Beware of those that always have a sales pitch, there are certain sponsors on here that are willing to mislead just to line their pockets. Spend the time and money to seek out professional training, and put what you learn to test under pressure at an actual match. Last place at the match still beats first place on the internet.
 
6MT said:
Shawn, you want to take a 6.5 CM out beyond 2000 yards?

And KT, I'm not surprised that you were aiming (probably at the moon) into oblivion to hit anything at 2000 yards with a CM.
Click to expand...

May have to call it quits at 2,000. But yeah. In theory it can be done.

In my research I have come across (again...) Cold Shot bases. May get one for my 338 and see what I can or can't hit. Real estate for it will be another issue involving a safety factor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom