Having trouble chambering FL sized brass into rifle... need some help.

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duncansuds

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Hello,

I have bought a brand new Christensen Arms Ridgeline in 7mm Mag. Very nice rifle and I love the feel of it and am hoping there is something I am missing here that simple....

First off, I am not new to reloading, I have reloaded for 7mm mag, 7RUM, 7-08 (from .308 brass, 308, 243, 223, 22-250, 338LM, 30-30, 30-06.... etc. (few more in there) I typically just FL size everything as I am not too sure about neck sizing due to the fact every so often you need to FL anyways to keep the brass from pooling at the shoulder/neck line and I believe that consistent practices give consistent results... so I always FL size and I have always had good results ranging from 25-1.0moa in all the rifles I have ever loaded for.

Any ways, to my problem here, I cannot get the FL sized Norma Brass to chamber into my new rifle. when I can get a piece to chamber, its hard to close/open and leave an impression around the neck.. I thought maybe I needed to Neck turn the brass, but it measures on par with factory ammo and is within spec, wall thickness is within spec as well, (checked when deciding if I needed to neck turn) the oal of the cartridge is within spec, using a Hornady comparator gauge I found the shoulder to be around .010-.015 "higher" in the resized brass compared to brand new factory Hornady brass and I bought some factory federal loaded ammo to try out... and it worked great, even held around 1/2moa. I tired screwing it in another half a turn thinking maybe I wasn't getting a full cam over or something, but didn't work at all. So I thought maybe my dies were on the high side of normal, so I opted for a small base FL resizing die (RCBS) to knock it down a little for the tube guns and sensitive semi autos.. now even that hasn't allowed my rifle to chamber this brass. I am not sure what to do with this.

I need a little advice on what to do with this. Any help would be appreciated greatly. I am hoping I can try something that will make me slap my forehead for being such a dummy on this one..
 
I've had to deal with similar. I used jiffy marker to mark up the case looking for where it was dragging. In my case, it turned out shoulder area was the culprit. Since my press was already camming over, I slid a feeler gauge into shell holder, below the case, and sized again. By going to .003", the re-sized case chambered properly. This told me I would need to peel .003" off of either the shell holder or the bottom of the die. Something to check, anyways, before altering stuff.
For another set-up, I found cases sticking just above the belt. That was on brass for a 7x61 S&H, so it would also fit into bigger cartridge dies. Dropped right in to the 338 Win Mag die, but stopped at least 1/2" short on the 458 Win Mag die, so that told me that the body cavity on my 458 dies was smaller than either the 338 or the 7x61. Ran all of them through the 458 die and the worked fine.
 
Are you using a single stage press? If so, when you raise the ram and cam it over, do you see daylight between your die and your shell plate? If so, lower the ram, turn 1/4 turn at a time and repeat until the plate is kissing the base of the die. If it is already kissing, you can knock off a thou or two at a time by laying some 400grit emery paper on a sheet of glass or flat slab or worksurface and carefully sanding the surface of the shell plate.

If you're on a progressive press, shell plate deflection is possible if there isn't an opposing case on the other side of the case being sized.
 
Keep turning it in until your bolt closes. I had similar issues starting out reloading. It got alot worse before it was better. You need to bump the shoulder back about 2 thousands from a fired cartridge. So if it's getting longer you need to screw the die in more.
 
Could be any one of several different causes.

Does factory ammo feed and chamber ok?

Was this brass previously fired in the same rifle or something else?

You're sure it's not the bullet touching the lands?

You said there were some marks on the neck/shoulder area. That could be caused by any one of several different issues, Could you post a picture of the marks?

If your rifle has no issues then it "probably" is the shoulder or the portion of the case right above the belt that need to be sized more. Using a feeler gauge as described in a previous post is easy to do and will either fix the issue or help narrow it down.
 
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The brass was previously fired in a match barrels chamber. It’s a Krieger 1-9 throated for 180 Bergers. This happens with loaded and empty brass.

I will be trying the shim the shell holder/base. But screwing it in any further would be pointless if it was already touching?? Or would it not be? Maybe I’m missing something. Then I am thinking I will knock off the base Little by Little. Those are good plans and I was considering the docking of the shell holder, but hadn’t thought of feeler gauges to guide how much I should try.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.
 
when adjusting the die, after it lightly touches the shellholder on the fully extended ram, screw it in another turn.
I've had dies that perhaps had the thread cut slightly smaller and would rise with the case. Not much. Just enough to drive me crazy!
Also, plenty of case lube might help push the case all the way in.
 
The trouble is because the brass was fired in a different rifle. The fix will depend on where the interference is taking place. Blackening a case with a sharpie and trying to chamber it should tell you where it's hanging up. If it happens to be the shoulder not being pushed back enough, having the shell-holder shaved will cure that. The good part is you can go crazy on that and the damage is limited to the cost of a shell-holder. Take too much off and the head space will still be handled by the belt. Might even work.

The interferrence could also be from the body not being reduced enough. That seems unlikely since you've already tried a small base die. That's usually a good move on these salvage operations.

A third problem that it could be is a bulge built up right in tight in front of the belt where a sizing die won't reach. That doesn't happen a lot, but when it does it's bad. You can shave the shell-holder, the die, your balls, or hacksaw the case in half and it still won't chamber. There is a cure though, the Willis tool which works on all the belted cases.
I got mine to salvage a pile of Norma .257 Weatherby cases that had been used in a rifle I'd traded off. Some would chamber, some wouldn't but even those that would chamber weren't quite right. The Willis tool cured it, but it isn't cheap and you need a pile of brass to make it worth while. Once you have it though you'll probably find uses for it, esp since you like playing with tight chambered custom barrels and salvage brass.
 
duncansuds said:
The brass was previously fired in a match barrels chamber. It’s a Krieger 1-9 throated for 180 Bergers. This happens with loaded and empty brass.

I will be trying the shim the shell holder/base. But screwing it in any further would be pointless if it was already touching?? Or would it not be? Maybe I’m missing something. Then I am thinking I will knock off the base Little by Little. Those are good plans and I was considering the docking of the shell holder, but hadn’t thought of feeler gauges to guide how much I should try.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify - you are correct that turning in the die more is pointless if the shell holder top is tight to the die bottom, assuming that you have taken out all the give / flex in your press. When your press cams / snaps over-centre, the top of die should be as tight to bottom of die as it is ever going to get. Under these conditions, you can try to solve problem by forcing the brass just a small bit higher into the die by inserting feeler gauge into the shell holder, underneath the case head, Depending on the thickness of the slot in the shell holder you might get .005 or more, to see if that resolves the "Shoulder too long" issue. If it does, that gives you the thickness dimension to permanently shave off the shell holder top or the die bottom. At some point, your brass belt hits the recess for it in the die and that's as far as its going.
I have read of the Willis die mentioned - "bulge buster", I think. Cheap interim step is to try your cases in other belted dies that your case will fit into - check some case drawings in loading manuals - I think the 7mm RM will fit into 300 Win Mag, 338 Win or Weatherby Mag, for example. Due to manufacture tolerances, you might find another die that is tighter just in front of the belt than yours.
 
I had a problem in a non-belted case once, and potashminer and dogleg do the best job of explaining the situation. As a minor aside, a once sized brass would not chamber easily. If I sized a case once, turned it 90 degrees, sized again, sized it again and then it would chamber easily.
I put my shell holder in a lathe and turned it down .010 and then I could size like normal. I probably took too much off but I was careful how much I sized the case. You can buy shell holders now in a set that have been shortened by a specific amount, by .002, by .004, .006 and so on.
There is some thing you could do at home, measure the height of a shell holder, chuck it in a electric drill, give it a dab of valve grind compound, and polish it. Every so often, clean it up and try sizing a case. Good luck.
 
I'd have to agree with what everyone else is saying after reading that the brass came out of another rifle. It is not getting resized properly. Could be a single issue such as the shoulder too high, could also be a combination of that, possibly plus a bulge just above the belt, and possibly plus the neck is too long after resizing and is protruding into the lands. 100% agree with getting a second shell holder and slowly polishing it down by a couple of thou at a time monitoring how the shoulder moves and the resulting fit of the empty brass in the chamber. I had to do this with a .223 last year and I took 0.002" off the shellholder to make it right, but this is totally firearm dependent.
 
Just as an update....

On the advice of a private messager, I tried a different brass altogether. I went with a federal brass, and I was able to use my small base dies to chamber and extract smoothly.

He had mentioned to me that he had a similar issue with Norma brass. His assumption was that he found that brass had a bit of a "spring back" issue and it may very well be the case. I tried a few other brands with a couple more I had kicking around, and they chambered, then I tried the Norma brass again, turned it .25 turn and ran it through the die again, still wouldn't chamber. So maybe there is a little spring back on that brand of brass and combined with the tight tolerances of the chamber being in the small side of saami, wouldn't work together....

Thanks to all who had answered previously.
 
duncansuds said:
Just as an update....

On the advice of a private messager, I tried a different brass altogether. I went with a federal brass, and I was able to use my small base dies to chamber and extract smoothly.

He had mentioned to me that he had a similar issue with Norma brass. His assumption was that he found that brass had a bit of a "spring back" issue and it may very well be the case. I tried a few other brands with a couple more I had kicking around, and they chambered, then I tried the Norma brass again, turned it .25 turn and ran it through the die again, still wouldn't chamber. So maybe there is a little spring back on that brand of brass and combined with the tight tolerances of the chamber being in the small side of saami, wouldn't work together....

Thanks to all who had answered previously.
Click to expand...

Yep, Norma brass does that sometimes. Most nickel plated brass tend to spring back more than normal brass also. SBD usually solves this but not always :(
 
If it was a hot load shot in a match chamber, might have over stretched in the base area and will no longer resize properly, you can measure that, if the case is all the way inserted into the die, with the web only sticking out of the die with shell holder bottomed out, that's as far as your ever gonna get, might just have to save that brass for setting up an annealer
duncansuds said:
The brass was previously fired in a match barrels chamber. It’s a Krieger 1-9 throated for 180 Bergers. This happens with loaded and empty brass.

I will be trying the shim the shell holder/base. But screwing it in any further would be pointless if it was already touching?? Or would it not be? Maybe I’m missing something. Then I am thinking I will knock off the base Little by Little. Those are good plans and I was considering the docking of the shell holder, but hadn’t thought of feeler gauges to guide how much I should try.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.
Click to expand...
 
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