A cool box of ammo

Claven2

Claven2

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Picked this up today at a local shop. Another CGNer was with me and grabbed the other 2 complete boxes. There were two partial boxes left in rougher shape when we left, but I thought this was cool.

These would have been made (1941) for issue with M1917 rifles given to Canada under Lend Lease. They were likely for home guard use, as I believe very few .30-06 rifles in Canadian service would have gone overseas in 1941.

The red strip on the box is to ensure easy identification in the event of combat so nobody would grab the ammo for a .303 rifle. The red band matches the red band painted around the stock of M1917 rifles in Canadian service at the time.

Note that in October 1941, America had not entered the war and the M1 was just entering service in the USA and no (or virtually no) Garands would yet have made it into Canadian or commonwealth service.

A neat piece of history.

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The ammo is all FMJ, but bears the D.C.Co. head stamp, the same headstamp Dominion Cartridge Company was using fo commercial .30-06 in the 1940's. Which is interesting as it's not a military-specific headstamp.

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Not bad for 77 year old ammo...
 
I still have ten boxes of that stuff left. It's fine for the P17 but some of it is also marked "Regulated" and is very accurate in any rifle I've shot it through.

By the way, if it wasn't to expensive you should have picked up the partial cases. The brass is excellent and lasts forever. Lots of reloads on mine.

For those with the RED BAND P17s, a box of those to go with it is a must.
 
My Dad trained with the SMLE in 1941 in Ontario. When training was over they embarked for Englend with 30-06 P-17s (no ammo).
Upon disembarkcation there was a lorry at the bottom of the gangplank with Home Guard soldiers taking every one of those P-17s
(for their own service). So my Dad's unit marched off to temporary billets 'somewhere' in England with no weapons at all. When active service training started they were issue No.4s etc. So pics of Canadian soldiers in England with P-17swill be unlikely. His unit was the Royal Regiment
of Canadian Infantry out of Toronto. JOHN
 
my good friend who is an authority on PCMR has told me many a time that the red band on the boxes of 30-06 that Claven2 posted was indeed for the home Guard ( PCMR ) P-17 issued rifles. Nice find.
 
My uncle was in RCAF in WII. He was stationed at Terrace BC as a fitter with 135 (F) squadron. He mentioned shooting an "Enfield" chambered in 30-06 during his service. I've always assumed it was a P-17.
 
Claven2 said:
Picked this up today at a local shop. Another CGNer was with me and grabbed the other 2 complete boxes. There were two partial boxes left in rougher shape when we left, but I thought this was cool.

These would have been made (1941) for issue with M1917 rifles given to Canada under Lend Lease. They were likely for home guard use, as I believe very few .30-06 rifles in Canadian service would have gone overseas in 1941.

The red strip on the box is to ensure easy identification in the event of combat so nobody would grab the ammo for a .303 rifle. The red band matches the red band painted around the stock of M1917 rifles in Canadian service at the time.

Note that in October 1941, America had not entered the war and the M1 was just entering service in the USA and no (or virtually no) Garands would yet have made it into Canadian or commonwealth service.
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There was M1 Garands that were sent to Britain in 1941 and 1942. Between March 27th 1941 and June 1942 38,001 M1 Garands were sent to Britain. These M1 Garands also had the red band painted around the stock with a .30 or .300 on the band in black paint. The standard was that every non-standard caliber rifle (i.e. not .303) had a red band and the caliber painted on in black.

Definitely a cool find though!
 
Just forget how many regiments were stationed up and down the west side of BC, for sure they had the P-17 in 30-06,P-14 in 303, marlin and model 94,s in 30-30 in the arsenal, not sure if Leo said any Enfields or not. He used to have a very large display at HACS in Chilliwack and in Kamloops BC every year with documentation and corresponding ammo. Sold most off years ago to a private museum. Each town had a compliment of volunteers so Terrace for sure would of had its own regiment.

It would be a stretch to say the ammo was all commissioned for the home guard however the red band on the rifle posted was as stated an quick reference to the 30-06 red label on the ammo boxes

Fears that the Japanese would invade so the group was sanctioned by the Canadian government.
 
Claven2 said:
FWIW, it was $30.00 per box.
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That's a very good price. Last year at Chilliwack they were asking $60/box unfired and $25/box fired. I saw a couple of guys walking around with them so they were obviously selling. No idea what they actually paid for them
 
The RCAF also used Model 1917s for airfield defence on the West Coast so that would have been another draw on .30-06 ammo for training. I also have a VHS tape of a Cdn Army training film on the Model 1917 and we do know that they were used by Veteran's Guard personnel who were guarding POW camps.
 
My father was trained as an Aircraft Instrument Repairman. After a spell under Manny Silverman at Number 2 Bombing and Gunnery School at Dafoe, Sask., he was sent to Lethbridge, where 133 Fighter Squadron RCAF was forming-up. When their Hurricanes arrived, the Squadron was posted to Boundary Bay, B.C. and only later moved to Tofino where they were later joined by 135 Squadron.

I do not know exact dates, but 133 definitely was at Boundary Bay in October of 1942 because that was when Dad met a cute little redhead named Pauline Arrowsmith. They were married in October of 1943, at which time 133 was at Tofino. I came along, quite unbidden, to blight the world in October of 1944, at which time 135 had been at Tofino for some time and Dad was Chief Inspector for Instruments and Avionics at Aircraft Repair in Edmonton.... which was also Dad's home town, Grandfather having been posted at the HBC Fort where he was a Fur Grader/Buyer until he left the Company in 1921.

Conditions at Boundary Bay following Japan's entry into the War were somewhere between chaotic and determined; everybody was training on something nearly all the time. There was weapons training for everyone, an attenuated Commando course in Unarmed Combat and related nastiness and, of course, there was Coast Watch. Everyone, even Instrument specialists, took part in Coast Watch in addition to any and all other duties. Rifles issued for this purpose were "Eddystone rifles" (definitely P-'17s; the P-'14s built at Eddystone were marked simply "ERA"). Ammunition was scarce enough that the men actually Watching handed over their ammo to the next shift coming on Watch. The standing order of the day in this regard was very simple: "If the Japs land, fire 5 rounds and run like hell!"

Five rounds per man -- one charger -- was all the ammunition available!

Ammunition later became available in buckets, of course, as the short-dated Aircraft ammunition reserved for the Hurricanes with their 12 Brownings apiece became outdated and slipped into the regular supply chain.

But in the early days it was 5 rounds per rifle...... and this is the actual stuff. Nice to see a whole box!
 
The P17 was also issued to the non mobilised militia and the RCN. "Defending the Dominion" has a good write up on the P17 in Cdn service. Official Cdn name for the M17 was "Rifle Enfield 30/06".
P14 was little used in Canada.
Have a few rounds of local 30-06 blank made by pulling the bullet and plugging the neck with sergeant major soap. Obtained them from a vet.
 
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