H4350 vs IMR 4451 for 6.5 Creedmoor

kykamo

kykamo

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They seem to be very similar, but h4350 seems for temp stable and you need a little bit more 4451 to reach the same velocities generally. However, H4350 is hard to come by and 4451 is a good replacement that is more available.

So is H4350 worth constantly searching for to have the slight benefits, or is 4451 pretty much just as good, more available and worth replacing H4350 with? What would you do?
 
kykamo said:
They seem to be very similar, but h4350 seems for temp stable and you need a little bit more 4451 to reach the same velocities generally. However, H4350 is hard to come by and 4451 is a good replacement that is more available.

So is H4350 worth constantly searching for to have the slight benefits, or is 4451 pretty much just as good, more available and worth replacing H4350 with? What would you do?
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Goto Budget Shooter supply. They have a bunch of H4350. Even 8 lbers. Shipping is cheap too
 
Just to add further. H4350 with 6.5 Creedmoor and 143 ELDX, is by far the more accurate combination I have ever shot. I don’t have the same experience as some of the folks on here but I have reloaded for 7mm , 300 win mag, and 308. All with very good rifles. With this combo you have to try hard to have a group larger 1 MOA. After 1 day of reloading I’m shooting 0.25 MOA at 200 yds with hardly any work. The fact that it’s H4350 and it’s temperature stable has me sold.
 
I for one have been very happy with IMR4451 in my 6.5 Creedmoor, Have 3 pounds to work with to keep me shooting till I find H4350 for a decent price, I don't call 364.00 for an 8 pounder decent!
 
brnolvr said:
I for one have been very happy with IMR4451 in my 6.5 Creedmoor, Have 3 pounds to work with to keep me shooting till I find H4350 for a decent price, I don't call 364.00 for an 8 pounder decent!
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Tough crowd tonight. Anyhow. Powder typically runs 50 clams per lb. $364 for an 8 lbs for something that is really not available anywhere because the demand seems reasonable. I load for hunting so temperature is important if changing temps are an issue, then Hogdon the whole way.
 
kykamo said:
They seem to be very similar, but h4350 seems for temp stable and you need a little bit more 4451 to reach the same velocities generally. However, H4350 is hard to come by and 4451 is a good replacement that is more available.

So is H4350 worth constantly searching for to have the slight benefits, or is 4451 pretty much just as good, more available and worth replacing H4350 with? What would you do?
Click to expand...

IMR 4451 is also temperature stable
 
I just loaded up a three test rounds for my new Rem 700 using Barnes 140gr MatchBurners, Hornady brass, and IMR4451. I'm hoping to see good results. I only loaded three so I can see if there are any pressure signs at 39gr before working upwards. I have a range in my yard so I don't need to load a bunch at a time then go to the range to test. It makes development much easier not loading up 5 of each first. I just test 3 and if they look promising I make more and shoot again and if not I increase powder and try 3 more.

I would have bought H4350 but it was not available at the time. I've never loaded for 6.5 with either powder so don't know what to expect. I'm hoping the IMR enduron stuff is as temp stable as they advertise.

I've used Varget and H100V with 129gr Hornady SST's in my Modern Hunter, Varget gave slightly better groups and is supposedly more temp stable so I'm sticking with it for now but will likely try the 4451 and 4350 this summer.

Hopefully I find a nice load with the 4451 while it's cold that I can try this spring and summer to test the temp stability.
 
rick357 said:
In the eyes of the beholder and what they decide to be 'temperature stable'. Not so much according to this:

precision rifleblog.com/2016/06/19/powder-temp-stability-hodgdon-extreme-vs-imr-enduron/
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Thanks for the link, it was a good read. I note that IMR4451 looses most of its temperature stability in the higher temperature range, and is only two fps different than H4350 between 25 and 65 deg. f
 
tjsudbury said:
Thanks for the link, it was a good read. I note that IMR4451 looses most of its temperature stability in the higher temperature range, and is only two fps different than H4350 between 25 and 65 deg. f
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If I recall correctly from the article, the overall velocity delta for IMR4451 was around 50fps over the temperature extremes tested. Now 20, or even 50fps for that matter on a cool fall morning means diddly squat at 150 yards when shooting a 10inch gong or a deer, but 50fps at 600+m can mean the difference between a bullseye or missing the target entirely on a nice warm summer day. It's all in the application. Sitting out in the full sun in the middle of a nice summer day, ammo can and will get a tad warmish. Using a good temperature insensitive powder AND doing your best to keep the ammo at a consistent temp to help iron out the remaining velocity change from temperature always helps. Of course, even more important is the shooter staying comfortable. Stay warm when it is cold out and as cool as possible when it is hot out. Neither scenario makes for an accurate shooter and that has even more effect on accuracy than any 20 or 30fps velocity differential.
 
I have good luck with RL-16 in the 6.5 Creed. It is their new temp stable powder (from what I understand). So far I really like it. Great velocities no pressure signs, fills the cases. Low ES's and SD's

H-4350 is also my other go to powder for my 6.5's
 
Did a little testing with 4451 today, three groups of three just working up looking for pressure signs and checking velocity. 40.2gr under the Barnes 140gr Match Burner gave 2550fps which is still much lower than I'm hoping for but I started pretty low just to be safe with a new powder and so far it's looking promising. Will continue working upwards till I get closer to 2700fps and find a nice node. I've also got 300 140gr SMK's and 100 Hornady 140gr ELD to try as well :p

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Well you guys have me sold on H4350. Ill join the eternal hunt with the rest of you. Just bought some with ELD-X bullets. Cant wait for the weather to warm up a bit
 
kykamo said:
Well you guys have me sold on H4350. Ill join the eternal hunt with the rest of you. Just bought some with ELD-X bullets. Cant wait for the weather to warm up a bit
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Sounds like some shops are getting it in stock now. I can't remember which ones but sounds like it's around again. I'll be buying some once I get a load or two developed with the 4451 :)
 
It is good to know that the 4451 is so similar for those times you can't find any h4350. I'd almost say that's another reason to go with h4350; there's an easy backup for it.
 
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