Cowitness. What is the big hype?

One thing I have found out quickly was there is an advantage to using Optic ready slides vs the dovetail mount... for me. I found with the dovetail mount the sight was higher than I was used to which affected the presentation. Using my normal draw I had to then lower the gun to acquire the red dot. With more practice I am sure I would get used to the lower presentation of the gun. Since purchasing a pistol with an optic ready slide the optic sits much lower and I am finding the sight faster and easier using my normal presentation. Because I am not dedicated to one platform, having the sight lower and the benefit that goes with it, for me, makes the transitions from one gun to another seamless.

For those who start with a red dot it will be a non-issue. Given a choice, if you are planning to go with a red dot, get a pistol with the an optic ready slide. There are a few pistol out there now eg Walther Q5 Match, Walther PPQ 4 Tac, S&W CORE 4.25"/5", SIG 320, Canik and Glock. For the over 40 crowd the red dot is going to prove a blessing.

In a month or two I will have a optic ready top end for my M&P Pro and it will be interesting to see if I am faster with the co-witness sight vs no co-witness.

Take Care

Bob
 
It really comes down to practice. Enough time spent with a red dot and you can be faster and more accurate in pretty much every situation. I have a S&W M&P Pro Core with a red dot - as everyone knows, the sights on the Pro CORE co-witness. At first I found the co-witness to be helpful, as I wasn't used to using a red dot. Now I'm almost inclined to take the iron sights off altogether - I don't feel that they get in the way, I just feel they no longer serve a purpose for me.

Obviously, as has been pointed out, co-witness sights would come in handy if the red dot failed in the middle of a competition (or if it was a duty gun). But for me I ignore them.
 
I don't think this yhread has hit the purpose of co-witnessing sights, but I only skimmed the thread. Let me try...

1. Irons are durable: a rifle like an AR, irons are nice: rugged and durable via simplicity, more so than any electronic or even quality optic. So all the weekend warriors must have it for when the zombies come.

2. Irons are limited: they suck in low and no light situations because you cant pick up the front sight. Tritium solves this. Yay. But Irons obscure your sight picture also. Bullets drop over time and distance and whatever your shooting at often gets covered by irons.

3. Enter the red dot: What solves these two irons limitations at the same time? Red dots work in all light and obscures nothing. Not even the body of the ring if you if you shoot with both eyes open. Works awesome.

...conclusion so far? I want red dot for awesome and iron for backup.

"Hold up there curseyou. You just contradicted yourself. Your irons obscure your reddot anyways so f.u."

Did I mention flip up back up iron sights are extra awesome. Fold them down when using the red dot.

4. You are now managing two aiming systems: Anyone worth their salt from the precision and bench forums will tell you that volumes have been written on ballistics and the optics interface and one important factor in all that math is sight height over bore axis. It matters a lot.

As you train and get used to the performance of your irons. Your intuition/expectations/muscle memory are fixed on the height-over-bore-axis characteristics of those particular sights.

When you suddenly switch to red dot for low light or greater field of vision if the height-over-bore-axis is different you will shoot different.

"Crap now I have to train on two systems and be good at both and be able to switch my muscle memory on the fly? F.U. curseyou, this two sight system management is bullshiat and so are you."

5. Bring forth the co-witness sights:
If the optical height above bore axis is the SAME for both my irons and my red dots, I only need to train to accept one set of opto-ballistic performance characteristics. The longer range shots where height above bore axis matters and my shooting will be more intuitive and consistent regardless of what you use. Your hold and cheek weld is now the same on both systems. You now have the holy grail of action shooting 400 yards and less.

Durability
Low light/night
Unobscured field of view
Redundancy
Consistency

Now lets talk about cowitnessing on a pistol. All the same stuff holds true, but the distances are shorter so the effects of height above bore axis are less. Pistols are less accurate than rifles so any theoretical benefits get obscured pretty quick. At pistol distances and velocities your barrel is obscuring your sight view more than your sights are. The benefits arent really there.

For pistols you are way way way better of with irons w/ tritium inserts. But business like to sell doodads, and people like to buy silly stuff that is popular and talked about. Cowitness becomes a buzzword and pretty soon the car mod guys have co-witness wiper blades and your breakfast cereal now has 30% more co-witness.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
You guys know that the whole purpose of RDS is that the point of impact is where the dot is, anywhere in the glass right?

You don't have to line the dot up with the sights to shoot it after you zero it. On top of that you are not supposed to be "looking thought the glass" when using an RDS. Both eyes open looking at the target and with brain magic the dot will be floating on the target.

I find lower 1/3 co witness is the best. Absolute co-witness does block a lot of the "tube"

cowitness_graphic_v2_e4d65e0f-ab33-4545-adf2-367bb4477752_1024x1024.png


Shawn
 
curseyou said:
..... For pistols you are way way way better of with irons w/ tritium inserts. But business like to sell doodads, and people like to buy silly stuff that is popular and talked about....
Click to expand...

Anyone with presbyopia who has used a red dot sight finds out very quickly that they are not a fad or gimmick like you suggest.
 
Calahan said:
Anyone with presbyopia who has used a red dot sight finds out very quickly that they are not a fad or gimmick like you suggest.
Click to expand...

Yup but you don't need eye issues to reap the benefit. Red Dots are far easier to shoot accurately with a pistol for most shooters. They will eventually be on LEO pistols as well as competition shooters. The red dot sights reduce training time expenses. Open shooters would never have gone to Optic sights if irons were faster nor would folks shooting steel.

I find tritium sights fine at night when I am not shooting but less then desirable in bright sunlight when I am.

Take Care

Bob
 
Calahan said:
Anyone with presbyopia who has used a red dot sight finds out very quickly that they are not a fad or gimmick like you suggest.
Click to expand...

Don't misunderstand me. I love red dots. My aim point is some of my fav gear. This wasnt a post on the benefits of red dots. This was a post on cowitnessing sights. On a pistol, IMHO I see zero benefit of cowitnessing.

Slap a red dot on and have at her if you dont mind the bulk.
 
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