Are wolves the new bears? Trappers group says wolf hunting ban repeats mistakes...

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Are wolves the new bears? Trappers group says wolf hunting ban repeats mistakes of spring bear hunt scrapping

Proposal would extend ban on hunting and trapping wolves and coyotes outside of provincial parks

By Erik White , CBC News Posted: Feb 15, 2018 10:17 AM ET| Last Updated: Feb 15, 2018 1:28 PM ET

A proposed ban on hunting and trapping wolves and coyotes is being compared to the controversial cancelling of the spring bear hunt.

The provincial government is considering creating a protected zone for the predators over 39,000 square kilometres in central and eastern Ontario, including the area between Algonquin and Killarney Provincial Parks, where there is already a ban in place.

The goal is to protect the threatened Algonquin wolf, but the ban would also include grey wolves and coyotes, whose numbers are healthy.

But Robin Horwath, general manager of the Ontario Fur Managers Federation says like the cancelling of the spring bear hunt in 1999, this is a political issue, being pushed by southern Ontario environmentalists and is based on shaky science.

"We want to make sure we get some true evidence," he told the CBC from his home in Blind River.

'A wolf is a wolf, a dog is a dog'

Horwath says the eastern wolf was renamed the Algonquin wolf two years ago, which "leads us to believe that we're looking for an iconic, symbolic wolf for Ontario."

But he says some studies show that Algonquin wolves are really just a hybrid of the coyotes and grey wolves they share Ontario forests with.

"A wolf is a wolf, a dog is a dog," Horwath says.

Horwath warns that the hundreds of wolves trapped and hunted in these areas will be eating more deer and moose and household pets.

"They're having issues with wolves and coyotes and pets. They showed a number of wolves on Ramsey Lake on the 6:00 news. And pet owners that had pets killed, missing or injured," he says.

"When we protect things, it doesn't always have a positive effect,"

Protection for wolves needed to withstand climate change

But Hannah Baron, the conversation campaign director of the group Earthroots, disagrees.

"Everyone quotes the spring bear hunt, the return of it, as being important for dealing with these nuisance bears, but we never saw that evidence," she says.

Baron argues this protected zone is needed to make the wolf population strong enough to withstand future challenges that might come with climate change.

"Without it, we don't have a good chance of the animal recovering and taking over more of its historical range,"

The Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources says is received 2,500 comments on this subject and needs to make a decision before Jun. 15.
 
argh..ONE day we might have intelligent people in government .. right now we are far from that...
 
I feel sorry for the people in the ban area, but if the wolves make it down here I'll be happy. :ar15: (Provided they don't keep moving the boundary lines.)
 
I feel sorry for the people in the ban area, but if the wolves make it down here I'll be happy. :ar15: (Provided they don't keep moving the boundary lines.)

I hunt very close to that boundary and in one place we are in the banned zone. in the adjacent zone, the wolves have killed some sheep at a friends farm. He has no problems shooting them. He has plenty of deer around him. In the banned zone, last years moose hunt netted zero, and the previous deer hunt netted 1.
 
its bad enough buying a game seal when you go north of the French.....this is crazy. Wait till the dawgs move in to cities and towns in under 3 years.

population must be controlled or there will be conflicts with people
 
Well - I'm within the ban zone in Ontario. Latest news is that we had wolves spotted near a school yard, and a deer kill near by. There's gonna be trouble...
 
I hunt very close to that boundary and in one place we are in the banned zone. in the adjacent zone, the wolves have killed some sheep at a friends farm. He has no problems shooting them. He has plenty of deer around him. In the banned zone, last years moose hunt netted zero, and the previous deer hunt netted 1.

Hi, would it be practical for the sheep farmer to have a few livestock guardian dogs to protect the livestock?
 
Hi, would it be practical for the sheep farmer to have a few livestock guardian dogs to protect the livestock?


His last dog lost a leg. barely survived (he has since passed due to age and they have not replaced him) believe it or not a donkey seems to be the best animal for sheep protection. Wolves are very smart. 1-2 of them will distract the animals and then a couple more will go and get one.
 
His last dog lost a leg. barely survived (he has since passed due to age and they have not replaced him) believe it or not a donkey seems to be the best animal for sheep protection. Wolves are very smart. 1-2 of them will distract the animals and then a couple more will go and get one.

Believe it or not, bears do that, in a sense. I used to work at a small fly-in mine that had 2 great Pyrenees to chase bears off. Funny thing, I have a picture of a bear eating in the dog's dish during the day, and the dog sleeping next to it. But as soon as the sun went down, the dogs would chase any bear that came near. In the early spring, the bears would try to come in together, and the dogs would chase them all off, but as the summer progressed, one or 2 bears would get the dogs to chase them, and lure them further into the bush, and the other bears would enter the property. I know bears are supposed to be solitary, but this sure seemed like a coordinated tactic.
 
About ten years ago we were having problems with Wolves coming into our small town at night. First almost all the cats and many small dogs disappeared.

Then one night the Wolves Chased done a deer in our hockey arena field, they pinned it against the wall of an out building because apparently you could see blood on the buildings wall. The deer was then chased and brought down (blood all over) in approx in the center of the arena field. The deer then must have gotten back up because it was brought down again (blood all over) right beside my driveway. The deer got up one more time and was brought down for good where it was torn apart and eaten right in front of the local Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources building.

Many towns people inquired to the MNR about the situation, But "there is no problem".

From my experience with the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry as they now call themselves, when it comes to managing fish and wildlife resources they will say that they want input from Hunters, Anglers and anyone who uses or has a concern about the resource in question. They will even hold open houses where residents are welcome to attend and voice their concerns to the Ministries Employee's in charge of what ever change they are advocating for.

And after all the open houses are finished and after all of the concerns of the people who use the resource on a daily and or annual basis are considered they will just do what they want anyways.
 
His last dog lost a leg. barely survived (he has since passed due to age and they have not replaced him) believe it or not a donkey seems to be the best animal for sheep protection. Wolves are very smart. 1-2 of them will distract the animals and then a couple more will go and get one.

i can tell you that there is some breeds the wolves do not try to play with... i never seen a wolf or wolves trying to take away some sheeps when a charplaninatz band of shepperd dogs are around, same with kuwatz or pyrenees but they need to be trained to be part of the sheep ...
 
The tactic is simple and ingenious. Subdivide the wolves into a large number of '"distinct" species, for example, "Algonquin Wolves". Thus you create a large number of so-called species, each of which has a relatively small range and small population. That makes them easier to refer to using all the key catch-phrases designed to get the college kids and soccer moms up in arms; "endangered", "threatened", "at-risk", etc. Now, with all these educated idiots adding their voices to yours, it's child's play to lobby for a hunting ban.

Ms. Baron knows how to play the game. She even throws in one of today's top attention-getters, "climate change". Not only are these poor wolves in danger of extinction, but dammit, they are therefore less able to deal with the terrifying bogeyman that is Climate Change. It makes them that much more pathetic and in need of our help and our compassion.

Do they have scientists studying these wolves and their mating habits? If they could only prove that some of the wolves are having a problem with ###ual self-identification, that will be the next selling point.
 
The left uses clever marketing based "re-branding" to accomplish their objectives.

The "re-branding" of the Central Timber Supply Region to "the Great Bear Rainforest" dreamed up by Tzeporah Berman and 4 other environmentalists in a San Francisco restaurant is the best example.

And the public and the politicians fell for it.
 
The tactic is simple and ingenious. Subdivide the wolves into a large number of '"distinct" species, for example, "Algonquin Wolves". Thus you create a large number of so-called species, each of which has a relatively small range and small population. That makes them easier to refer to using all the key catch-phrases designed to get the college kids and soccer moms up in arms; "endangered", "threatened", "at-risk", etc. Now, with all these educated idiots adding their voices to yours, it's child's play to lobby for a hunting ban.

Ms. Baron knows how to play the game. She even throws in one of today's top attention-getters, "climate change". Not only are these poor wolves in danger of extinction, but dammit, they are therefore less able to deal with the terrifying bogeyman that is Climate Change. It makes them that much more pathetic and in need of our help and our compassion.

Do they have scientists studying these wolves and their mating habits? If they could only prove that some of the wolves are having a problem with ###ual self-identification, that will be the next selling point.

Sad... and true... and made me chuckle...
 
Wasn't too many years ago the Algonquin wolf was known as a Texas Red Wolf descendant. This was apparently proven through DNA (I don't know how Texas Red wolves were shot out along time ago) Just another attempt to get more attention for the cause.

Darryl
 
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