Lawrence of Arabia's revolver donated to National Army Museum

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Guardian article here

TE Lawrence took the gun from Ashraf Bey in 1916 and later gave it away to an army officer

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A revolver captured by Lawrence of Arabia from a Turkish officer during the first world war desert campaign which made him famous has been donated to the National Army Museum, together with a battered luggage label explaining its provenance.

TE Lawrence took the US-made Smith & Wesson from Ashraf Bey, whose name is inscribed in Arabic on the gun, when he was captured in 1916 together with more than £15,000 in gold, probably intended as bribes to persuade the Bedouin to support the Ottoman cause.

He later gave the gun to Capt Lionel Gray, a cipher officer in Middle East intelligence and an avid collector of souvenirs of the desert campaign, whose family have now donated it to the museum along with his archive.

The capture of Bey and his camel supply train was controversial because the Arab troops with Lawrence under Prince Feisal had diverted – and delayed in celebrating the captured loot – from a planned joint operation with the Royal Navy against the Ottoman-held city of Wejh.

The label, in Gray’s handwriting, explains the origin of the gun and adds: “Ashraf Bey is known to have been responsible for the death of some 2,000 Armenians and this revolver was taken from his person”.

Lawrence, who had interrogated Bey after his capture, passed on the information to Gray, implicating the Turkish officer the infamous massacre of Armenians in 1915, claiming that Bey had personally used the revolver to execute a number of captives.

The story of the incident and the campaign is told in a new book by Philip Walker, Behind the Lawrence Legend: the Forgotten Few who shaped the Arab Revolt, which drew extensively on Gray’s archive.
 
I'm not buying the provenance. Colt & S&W revolver production was directed towards the Allies from 1914 onwards. Plus there is no mention of the caliber. Is it 45 Colt, 455 Webly?

The British army used the Webly MKIV top break revolvers in 455 for Officers. How did a DA/SA S&W make its way to the deep desert in 1916? Unlikely at best. Plus how did a S&W revolver get there? S&W did not make their large frame revolvers in British 455 caliber early in the war for export or commercial sales. Bogus....
 
I'm not buying the provenance. Colt & S&W revolver production was directed towards the Allies from 1914 onwards. Plus there is no mention of the caliber. Is it 45 Colt, 455 Webly?

The British army used the Webly MKIV top break revolvers in 455 for Officers. How did a DA/SA S&W make its way to the deep desert in 1916? Unlikely at best. Plus how did a S&W revolver get there? S&W did not make their large frame revolvers in British 455 caliber early in the war for export or commercial sales. Bogus....

you do know that firearms were, and still are, sold all over the world and that in those days it was commonplace for officers to purchase their own sidearms right?
 
I'm not buying the provenance. Colt & S&W revolver production was directed towards the Allies from 1914 onwards. Plus there is no mention of the caliber. Is it 45 Colt, 455 Webly?

The British army used the Webly MKIV top break revolvers in 455 for Officers. How did a DA/SA S&W make its way to the deep desert in 1916? Unlikely at best. Plus how did a S&W revolver get there? S&W did not make their large frame revolvers in British 455 caliber early in the war for export or commercial sales. Bogus....

I found another article, this time from the NAM website, which says it's a .44.

The label's inscription reads: '.44 S & W [Smith & Wesson] revolver presented to WL Gray by Colonel Lawrence - bearing name in Arabic of Ashraf Bey. The latter and his following with £15,000 Turkish gold were captured by Col Lawrence in 1916.'

Given the letter there seems little doubt of its provenance. Question is, where did Ashraf Bey get it? Irrespective of where US-made revolvers were sent, it's not impossible that a few could have ended up in others's hands.

Lawrence himself apparently favoured the 1911 pistol.
 
Interesting, that was really nice of the family to donate it to the museum. It will be enjoyed by a lot more people now.
 
Nope!
44 what? 44 special? 44 Russian? 44 American? This proves nothing and the provenance is disputable.

S&W & Colt made their large frame swing out revolvers in 45 Colt. 455 British came much later at the specific request by the British army for war time production. Standard barrel length was 6". The gun shown would not be a standard production length 6" barrel, but a shorter length. S&W did not have a Custom Shop until the 1980's.
Bogus!
 
I'm not buying the provenance. Colt & S&W revolver production was directed towards the Allies from 1914 onwards. Plus there is no mention of the caliber. Is it 45 Colt, 455 Webly?

The British army used the Webly MKIV top break revolvers in 455 for Officers. How did a DA/SA S&W make its way to the deep desert in 1916? Unlikely at best. Plus how did a S&W revolver get there? S&W did not make their large frame revolvers in British 455 caliber early in the war for export or commercial sales. Bogus....


The revolver was taken from a Turkish officer in 1916, it wasn't part of British procurement. Without knowing the serial number, there's no way to know when it was actually made. The timeframe would make this one of the first model Hand Ejectors, aka, the triple lock.

P.S. Barrel looks to be 5".
 
In 1916 the British Army could not field enough production top break Webley revolvers in 455 to satisfy demand. (As an aside, the stupid Canadian gov't continued to field the ill suited Ross rifle which proved disasterous for our Army) They sought overseas production of revolvers in 455 Webley.
1916, the second year of the war, Colt & S&W was not sending short barrelled revolvers to the Arabs.
 
I'm not buying the provenance. Colt & S&W revolver production was directed towards the Allies from 1914 onwards. Plus there is no mention of the caliber. Is it 45 Colt, 455 Webly?

The British army used the Webly MKIV top break revolvers in 455 for Officers. How did a DA/SA S&W make its way to the deep desert in 1916? Unlikely at best. Plus how did a S&W revolver get there? S&W did not make their large frame revolvers in British 455 caliber early in the war for export or commercial sales. Bogus....

Looks like a Smith &Wesson Military & Police (what we now call a model 10). Most likely in 38 special.
 
Looks like a Smith &Wesson Military & Police (what we now call a model 10). Most likely in 38 special.

Well, the letter clearly states it's a .44, so that's out. Given that we're all guessing anyway, I'll wait and see what might eventually be provided by the SWCA. Roy Jinks WILL know. Could be a long time, though. Ill post any reply I get from the NAM. :)
 
Not ever a 38special! The large frame S&W & Colt revolvers were designed for 45 Colt. S&W & Colt wanted to get away from 36 caliber revolvers...wanted the big bore stuff.

Again, the standard length Colt & S&W revolvers, large frames, were 6", not shorter. Plus Webley in Britain could not turn out enough top break 455 MK 5 & 6 revolvers for their WW1 army Officers. There are a plethora amount of questions to be satisfied to assert the genuineness of a short barrelled S&W revolver in 1916 that somehow found its way to the Arab Middle East in 1916.
Please provide more details .....
 
The gun belonged to a Turkish officer - nothing to do with the British until Lawrence captured the Turkish officer and took his gun away. It isn't a British gun, nor is it an "Arab" gun, it's a Turkish (Ottoman) gun, probably purchased by the (Turkish) officer himself. His name is engraved on the gun.
 
Nope!
44 what? 44 special? 44 Russian? 44 American? This proves nothing and the provenance is disputable.

S&W & Colt made their large frame swing out revolvers in 45 Colt. 455 British came much later at the specific request by the British army for war time production. Standard barrel length was 6". The gun shown would not be a standard production length 6" barrel, but a shorter length. S&W did not have a Custom Shop until the 1980's.
Bogus!

S&W manufactured guns to order, they didn't need a "custom shop".

5" Triple Lock is really nice. I missed one in Calgary last year.

This gun could have been a private purchase, or a sales presentation gun by S&W directly, or by the American Embassy.

It would be very interesting to get a letter on this gun
 
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