.38 Special squibs
- Thread starter griaguns
- Start date
Either things have changed or you live in a special place:
https://www.gotenda.com/shop/reloading/primers/pistol-primers/cci-small-pistol-primer-500-1000box/
https://www.gotenda.com/shop/reload...s/cci-550-small-pistol-magnum-primer-1000box/
About 12% more expensive. A lot of retailers don't have any in stock.
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
FWIW, an interesting Shooting Times article on primers by a fellow who worked for CCI.
This bit corresponds with bigedp51's comments in Post #7:
And further to RocketSurgery's posta above (#36), I found this in an article on GunsAmerica.com:
OK- insomnia over for the night. Need to get some sleep
You realize by posting this, you also kept me up last night, lol
I've read a lot about people having issues with the Lee priming system on Pro1000/Loadmaster. I think the issue is that a lot of people take the instructions literally when they say you can be loading ammo in minutes. I think what Lee fails to mention is that it's a lot of minutes, like 180 of them, for you to completely tear down the press and reassemble everything. The main culprit is the primer feeding system which detects if a case is present on its way to station #2. When the press comes out of the box, you have to adjust the timing as well as the case indicator. You also have to tighten the shell holder to the ram.
You can't just order a progressive press and start pulling the handle, you need to learn how it works first. The guy I sold the Dillon press to was fully warned about the issues and said he's not worried because of the warranty. Well they won't send him a 4th press now, saying his gun is the problem lol.
My recollection of BULLSEYE SHOOTING with a .38 Spl wadcutter was - before firing each round, the shooter raised up the revolver about 60 degrees from level to assure the powder was banked up against the primer to assure proper ignition AND to prevent NASTY FLASHOVER explosion rather than "controled burning"...?
YOU were up late? I made my last post of the night at 3:35AM PST. (Or were you reading stuff even later than that?) I was tired enough that your llama (alpaca?) GIF was making me dizzy
I only use federal primers in my revolvers, Bullseye, no lube (Montana Gold jacketed bullet).
Heavy charge, light charge no matter within ten rounds I can garrantee a stuck bullet in the bore.
Gun always goes bang and factory ammo always works perfectly.
To be honest I have not tried a different projectile and the powder is fairly old (I have not used it elsewhere).
Not a gun I really use so I’ve relegated the problem to another day but if the OP finds a solve here you know I’ll try it out.
By elimination:
1-In the first batch, you had 7 squibs out of 18 rounds (3 cylinders), and all the rounds you pulled (that's a count of 182) had 4.4 +/-0.1 grn of powders. It means it's statistically impossible that you had 7 squibs out of 200 and got them all at random in the first 18 shots;
2-You tried another powder and had the same results, so it's near impossible that both bottles of powders were bad, especially if it's the powder you then used for the 9mm;
3-You don't talk about powder residues, so I'll suppose that all or most of the powder has burned. When it's not the case, the gun gets dirty AF, so you would probably have mentioned it;
4-A bad primer usually just doesn't go bang. Sometimes it's a slow fire instead of a no fire, but not for 7/18 rounds and then primers from the same batch working fine in the 9mm;
So what's left? I would tend to blame a combination of magnum primers with not enough crimp. The magnum primer is probably pushing the bullet out of the case before the powder is completely burned, so there never really is that much pressure being built in the case. The pop you hear is the primer and the sizzle is the gaz escaping between the cylinder and the forcing cone.
The reason revolvers do this but pistols mostly don't is that in a pistol barrel, the bullet hits the rifling and stops there, and the pressure can build behind it. Depending on the gun and bullet, sometimes the bullet will hit the rifling while still being in the case, but even if it's completely left, the pressure doesn't really have anywhere to go, so it keeps pushing the bullet. In a revolver, it can escape in the cylinder gap. So the same phenomenon will make for a crappy shot in a pistol and a stuck bullet in a revolver.
I would really switch to normal primers. I would tell you to crimp more but with lead bullets you can only crimp so much. You might wanna try new or 1Fired cases if your brass is old.
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Excellent analysis, VinnyQC
I had neglected to re-read the OP's post and therefore that he had tried a different powder. And in my peregrinations around the internet in the wee hours last night I now remember reading that a (magnum) primer could dislodge the bullet, which could seriously reduce the power of the propellant charge to the equivalent of a "mouse fart" load, esp. with fairly light loads to begin with. Looking back, it was in the Shooting Times article I linked to. It didn't seem to apply exactly to the OP's situation so I omitted mentioning it, but it does appear to be a valid possibility in this case:
To mis-quote an old proverb, "Many brains make revolver work."
Excellent analysis, VinnyQC
I had neglected to re-read the OP's post and therefore that he had tried a different powder. And in my peregrinations around the internet in the wee hours last night I now remember reading that a (magnum) primer could dislodge the bullet, which could seriously reduce the power of the propellant charge to the equivalent of a "mouse fart" load, esp. with fairly light loads to begin with. Looking back, it was in the Shooting Times article I linked to. It didn't seem to apply exactly to the OP's situation so I omitted mentioning it, but it does appear to be a valid possibility in this case:
To mis-quote an old proverb, "Many brains make revolver work."
When you are loading your revolver, I'll bet you have the muzzle pointed down.
When the cartridges are loaded in the firearm, the powder moves to the front of the case behind the bullet. When the gun is brought up to shoot, there is a gap from the primer to powder. The primer is igniting reliably. Most likely the primer ignition is starting the bullet to travel and at the same time trying to ignite the powder that is also being pushed out the cylinder/barrel.
Try loading the firearm with the cartridges level and the powder at the primer.
I have had this problem in my .45 Colt; I had squibs on some shots and others I was finding unburnt Unique being blown out the barrel.
When the cartridges are loaded in the firearm, the powder moves to the front of the case behind the bullet. When the gun is brought up to shoot, there is a gap from the primer to powder. The primer is igniting reliably. Most likely the primer ignition is starting the bullet to travel and at the same time trying to ignite the powder that is also being pushed out the cylinder/barrel.
Try loading the firearm with the cartridges level and the powder at the primer.
I have had this problem in my .45 Colt; I had squibs on some shots and others I was finding unburnt Unique being blown out the barrel.
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Absolutely. I load my 38spl with 5.75gr Unique. it's almost enough to spill over on a double charge, so it's easy to detect on the press if you've done it. I don't use the chain pull auto-disk system, I use the push-to-charge auto-disk set at 7.1 and the rounds show no signs at all of pressure, the primers are round and the casings are easy to extract. It's a nice combination with the light crimp I put in the cannelure.
In a revolver I would do not do this, the charge is too hot, and the Pro1000 cannot crimp well enough. I would try to find a 'bigger' powder than unique, I think it's called Trail Boss, not sure if it works in 38. I was taught that when you load your revolver, while it's aimed down, give it a wiggle once it's pointed horizontally. The thing I worry about most is the primer pushing the bullet into the forcing cone, and the powder just blowing out the side of the gun.
I'm going to try standard primers (which are hard to find here)
Loading and pointing the revolver up to shake the powder back to the primer is tough during a timed competion when speed is of the essence.
I just cleaned up all the standard primers the Cabalas had (a total of 300) and none on the horizon
Loading and pointing the revolver up to shake the powder back to the primer is tough during a timed competion when speed is of the essence.
I just cleaned up all the standard primers the Cabalas had (a total of 300) and none on the horizon
Well, at least you have some to try. Budget Shooter Supply has lots of CCI on hand but I'm not sure if they require special shipping.
There will be a solution. I just re-read your initial post and realize that I have the very same model (14-3 is 1967 vintage.) I've not done nearly enough shooting with it but I don't recall any squibs. (I usually load 140 gr. HBWC over 231.) If the weather improves according to predictions I may get to the range next week. If so, I'll load up some 158 gr. SWC over 4.4 Unique with my usual Winchester SPP and see what happens.
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Do you load with mixed brass? I find that if I get the crimp 'just perfect' for federal brass, it'll start crunching the thicker walled brass. This is why I just do a light crimp when I'm cranking out mixed range findings.
Have you thought of phoning Dillion Tech Customer service and explaining to there tech representatives? They know their machines better than anyone on this site? They have darn good aftermarket service from my past experience.
x-reload, western metal and tenda have thousands of them available. Multiple brands too.
