Dog training prong collar

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98ssuck

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I need some advice on training my new dog. She’s a beautiful black/white speckled gsp pup. She’s almost 4 months old. She is a pretty good listener for just the gf and I training her. When we go for jogs she doesn’t pull. On walks she does a little. She mostly comes when called. Will sit when told to. She doesn’t stay well but we just started that one.

We’re starting out with a basic obedience course. Last night was the introduction. No pets just people. The instructor was going over equipment. Prong collars came up. I didn’t know these existed. If she isn’t badly behaved. Just under trained.

I guess the question is. Could I skip the prongs and go with a choker and a little more patience. Or will will she never learn what I am trying to teach her without the prongs?

Here are the obligatory pictures of her
https://imgur.com/gallery/JAijw
 
My wife has taught obedience classes for more than 30 years and she advocates the simple training collar for most dogs , she has recommended a prong collar for only a couple of dogs which were very large and very stubborn. A 4 month old pup should only need the simple basic chain collar . By the way congrats on the new pup and the next 14 or 15 years of fun and companionship.
 
Go as friendly as you can and step up the measures IF you have to after patience proves not to work

Consistency is the key

I used the collars on my coon hounds but their ears quit working when the nose is on - the collars do work - I tried the settings on myself before the dogs felt them
 
i’ve used prong collar when my Brittany got to about 8 months, only because he was too energetic sometimes on the leash, and my elbow could not take it anymore, he was good most of he time just when people or other dogs were getting close he always pulled to them to say hi, i don’t like those collars and once we lost it we never replaced it, he knows now it’s not ok to pull when on leash, learned very quickly, just the same i don’t like chokers, some dogs just don’t get it and it is just ridiculed to see dog and owner pull in opposite ways with what looks like a dog busts trying to hang itself
just looked at the huntsmith website and the figure 8 they offer is actually what i once used when we went out without collar once, for whatever reason it puts pressure on the dog and stops him from pulling
 
Forget the prong collar not needed unless dog is very unruly.
Sounds like yours is starting to listen well anyway. If she starts pulling stop walking, they quickly learn they don’t go anywhere when pulling, if they persist wait until they stop and look back at you then treat. They will come back leaving slack in the leash and you can keep walking.
If that doesn’t work (and give it time and be consistent) I’d move over to a halter around the muzzle. What happens then is when they pull it turns their head back towards you and away from what they are wanting to pull towards.
Using fear and pain from a prong collar can lead to other behavioral issues down the road.
 
I’ve used a prong collar at the request of the owner on a dog that I was taking care of. She was flown in for TPLO surgery and owner said vets instructions were no pulling whatsoever. I had her until she was cleared to fly home. Anyhow, the story doesnt matter. The important points are that the prong collar is not nearly as painful as it looks. As with any training implement, in the wrong hands it would indeed be quite painful. But the way I saw it operate on this dog it would simply and immediately pinch the skin at many point around the neck as soon as the dog pulled hard enough. The very important difference is that you don’t 'pop’ it like a choker to correct the dog. It’s not designed like that. It just slowly comes tight as the dog pulls the leash so that the points move towards each other and pinch the skin. Discomfort happens spread evenly around the circumference of the neck, dog stops pulling to avoid it. It worked quite well, and pup never shows any sign of pain. Certainly never vocalized. Her body language was good - tail up and ears forward. Mostly she just wanted me to piss off and let her RUN on her new knee! Consider that a choker, used wrong, can be ineffective, painful, and physically damaging. But used right, of course it’s a great tool, especially for trainers who have a good sense of timing. Too often though, the choker is just used as a collar that gradually comes tight as the dog pulls and stays that way while the dog just pulls through the discomfort. Anyhow, that’s my two cents. I use a choker but I’m experienced and it works well for my dogs. But if I was helping someone train their dog and saw that they had poor timing or poor use of a choker, I would not hesitate to suggest a prong collar to help them to apply more immediate and effectively correction to pulling. But if I saw them yanking on the damned thing, I’d put it on THEM to help them to understand the difference! LOL Dont forget as well that there are several other effective tools for discouraging pulling. The classic Halti, various harnesses that make pulling uncomfortable, e-collars etc... all is pros and cons, all a great tool in some hands, and a goodam disaster in other hands!

I just looked back at the closing question in your original post. At four months old, there’s no way I would ever answer yes to 'will she never learn....' ANYTHING! She sounds like a fine pup making good progress with conscientious owners. Still lots of time and scope for improvement with any methods you use if you proceed with forethought and patience. I think that there are few things in life that give you a better return on investment than obedience training!

Cheers,
Dave
 
Me and a girlfriend parted ways when she put a prong caller on my dog when I was away working, those things looked barbaric
 
razorbeck said:
Me and a girlfriend parted ways when she put a prong caller on my dog when I was away working, those things looked barbaric
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"those things looked barbaric" "the ar15 looks scary" Put one on your neck or your leg, a dog's skin is (evidently) much thicker than yours....

Prong collars are fine, the trainer we use recommends them and if you size them correctly and correct your dog properly when needed your dog should walk with a loose leash and the collar shouldn't need to pinch but is there just in case.
 
play.soccer said:
Prong collars are fine, the trainer we use recommends them and if you size them correctly and correct your dog properly when needed your dog should walk with a loose leash and the collar shouldn't need to pinch but is there just in case.
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I took my year old Australian Shepherd to an obedience course in Amherstburg, Ontario called 21st Century Canine. The instructor breeds German and Dutch Shepherds. He advocated the use of prong collars and sold them at a good price. He also made sure that they fit properly and then taught us how to use them.

My dog needed more control and she very quickly realized what the deal was. Every dog that I saw there reacted well to the collars and we did the full six sessions. The collars do not hurt the dog when worn and they actually help you control the dog without hurting it. I was not sure at the beginning but the results were great.

My dog just wears a leather collar now and she behaves as if the prong was on her. I think the secret is proper fit and use not abuse.
 
Had a Chocolate Lab who was very stubborn and highly intelligent. Pulled like crazy. Went thru obedience school twice. Tried clicker training, treat training....all the warm and fuzzy stuff..gentle leaders...None of it worked. Took him to a shop where the owner owned and bred German Shepherds. Showed him my boy. Put the prong collar on him, he went to do his regular thing and pulled. Gave a little yip and turned right around to come back to me. Never pulled again. He would go get his leash with the prong on it to go for walks.
Just to be sure I put it around my thigh and gave a yank. It hurt but it wasn't too bad. Wouldn't put anything on my dog that injured them. P.S. there was a study in Europe on prongs vs. chokes. The choke dogs all had some sort of internal damage to their throats. The prong dogs had hardly any signs.
 
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My last dog, a working line euro dobe was trained with a pronge collar, much better than a regular chokd chain as it has a built in stop. Most other dogs, including my current gsd is trained with just a collar.
 
used a prong collar on my german shepherds and they work great. Now, on occasion when she is beginning to have an attitude, I just make her wear it and she falls right in line.
 
The prong or pinch collar is a very effective tool to help train your dogs. I’ve used one in the last with great success. The collar may look barbaric but when using it the handler puts 10% of the force on the leash and gets 10x’s the response from the dog. A choker pulls on the dogs neck and in training needs a firm jerk to get a young dogs attention. Fit the pinch collar on properly and you will be amazed at how well your pup listens.
 
hunter5425 said:
My wife has taught obedience classes for more than 30 years and she advocates the simple training collar for most dogs , she has recommended a prong collar for only a couple of dogs which were very large and very stubborn. A 4 month old pup should only need the simple basic chain collar . By the way congrats on the new pup and the next 14 or 15 years of fun and companionship.
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I would agree with the above 100%. I have trained all my dogs since 1971 and have had great success with the standard chain collar. It needs to be the proper size and there is a right and wrong way to put in on the dog, so when you release tension with the lead it in turn relaxes tension on the dogs neck. You want to use the least amount of force necessary to get the job done. The prong collar in your instance I would view as unnecessary and overkill.
 
my dog is very stubborn (1yo german shepherd lab cross) he would pull so hard with the choker he would lift himself up.. once we got the prong collar that stopped instantly now my wife can walk him as opposed to him walking her.


he still comes running when he hears the jingle because he gets to go for a walk so it must not be that bad
 
GSP have energy. More than my past Viszla. Good Luck!

A good vibrate/shock collar works great for training. Using Positive reinforcement and consistency I have great dogs because of this. Dogs do not come trained, you need to help them reach their full Potential. Cant afford a good e collar? At the least get a Halty collar that goes over their snout.

Prong collars are horrible and a white trash way to deal with being lazy. Put time into your dogs or don't have them.( General statement )
 
redbirddog said:
GSP have energy. More than my past Viszla. Good Luck!

A good vibrate/shock collar works great for training. Using Positive reinforcement and consistency I have great dogs because of this. Dogs do not come trained, you need to help them reach their full Potential. Cant afford a good e collar? At the least get a Halty collar that goes over their snout.

Prong collars are horrible and a white trash way to deal with being lazy. Put time into your dogs or don't have them.( General statement )
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Got any evidence aside from your feels?

I find it hilarious that you call it lazy as if throwing on a prong collar automatically makes the dog behave without putting time in.

Positive reinforcement is nice but the dog learns to expect a reward each time you ask him to do something. Sure you don't reward him each time and then he learns that he won't get rewarded every time so he doesn't listen every time. Correction based training is far better than reward based.

For example you're walking your dog and you meet someone and your dog jumps up on them. Tell me, what positive reinforcement is gonna stop your dog from doing that? LOL at least with a prong collar it's a quick flick of the wrist and the dog knows he better not do that again.
 
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