.22 'backfire' help diagnosing please

sucks that happened ! I've had it happen lots with ruko's, an occasional rem, winchester, fed, ... shot alot with my nylon, and one time had one even shoot bits out onto my hand
- when i use to shoot bulk boxes of rem vipers and yellowjackets, they worked well and only had one or two pop the rim ( don't use rem today... freekin expensive stuff ... and now i like CCI, much much better ammo ! ... cept yellow jackets are wicked for expanding )

some firearms are bad for it ... I remember waaaaay back, when i was young, Dad borrowed my uncles mossberg bolt 22 and we went target shooting down at the dryed out beaver pond. I was too young to even crank the bolt over ... he cycled the action bang, then again, and pooooOOoff ! it shot powder strait out the top of the action and got me in the eyes ( burned and i said i had enough cause i couldn't open my eyes due to stinging ) my brother had his turn then
- after, i shot it again ( was using imperial long rifles ) that happened when i was in grade 2, over forty years ago ! that mossie had a habit of giving you a shot of powder in the face

safety glass n plugs ... then jump back on that horse !
 
Got Juice? said:
It happens. Winchester I see it in as well as Federal BULK PACKS. Remember, BULK PACKS are rounds that are slightly FLAWED!!! When a company is pounding out 5 million rounds a day, the good stuff goes into 50rd boxes, and the stuff that fails 1-2/5QC checks goes into the bulk boxes. It is a fact that most rimfire shooters are not aware of because price trumps all else, they just want something that goes bang.

Rarely have I seen a separation on the head, rim or a side blowout in boxed ammo (Federal 38gn IIRC Boxed )

Just a fact of life
I call BS this day and age where everyone sues everyone, I am sure the ammo companys sell flawed ammo that they know is flawed
Click to expand...
 
McHoss said:
My youngest son had the exact same thing happen about 6 months ago using the same ammo. The case head separated and caused the same experience to a T. He was shooting a Cooey single shot. I have since gotten rid of the Winchester white box and won’t buy anymore of it. It had never happened before and hasn’t happened since.

Here’s a link to the thread I started. Some good info in it....

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1537070-22-cartridge-failure
Click to expand...

Thanks, read through the thread and helpful. We do clean our guns after every session (bore, receiver), but I haven't stripped down the bolt in a while.
 
Mongo62 said:
Got Juice? said:
It happens. Winchester I see it in as well as Federal BULK PACKS. Remember, BULK PACKS are rounds that are slightly FLAWED!!! When a company is pounding out 5 million rounds a day, the good stuff goes into 50rd boxes, and the stuff that fails 1-2/5QC checks goes into the bulk boxes. It is a fact that most rimfire shooters are not aware of because price trumps all else, they just want something that goes bang.

Rarely have I seen a separation on the head, rim or a side blowout in boxed ammo (Federal 38gn IIRC Boxed )

Just a fact of life
I call BS this day and age where everyone sues everyone, I am sure the ammo companys sell flawed ammo that they know is flawed
Click to expand...

Yep. Packaging, not quality checks, is the difference.

Though I would not doubt that the companies have been running their machinery (all of it) at extended hours of late, they have enough corporate lawyers to make me think that any willingness to let go any supposedly flawed ammunition would be a non-starter from the get-go.
My observations have been that for every guy that says they will never shoot one brand or other, there is another guy that swears the stuff shoots like a laser, and he won't use anything else. Expectations vary, guns vary, shooters vary.

I have had blown cases of just about every maker out there over the years, perhaps with the exception of Ely and a couple other higher end suppliers of Target Ammo (to expensive for the gopher patch!).
Click to expand...
 
northerndad said:
Can any of you more experienced rimfire shooters tell me what the hell happened? It was scary as hell and I never imagined a .22 could be that loud under any circumstance. We're now suspecting the ammo and are considering switching to some of our federal bulk or even spending the extra for CCI. My guess is that maybe he didn't fully seat the bolt handle and the bullet ruptured? Because this gun seams to seal up pretty snug and I can't see the powder "backfiring" like it did unless the bolt handle wasn't 100% seated?
Click to expand...

Did you keep the split case? Pictures?

Here's something you can try. Try to dry fire the rifle without closing the bolt all the way. Or use an empty case, and see if the pin will dent the rim if the bolt is not closed.
Now, I would suggest right off the bat, that was not an issue, as the bolt does not cam the round forward as it is closed anyways, and it would have to do so, in order for that to make a difference.

Anyways... Fall into the category of 'stuff happens'.
 
Thanks everyone, I've read through all the feedback. My takeaways is that it will happen once in a blue moon, and I'll be upping our game on the safety gear to make sure he has proper fitting muffs and glasses (he was wearing glasses too).
Some have expressed hope that he isn't scared to shoot. My sons LOVE shooting like crazy, he probably had shot 2-3000+ .22 rounds before this happened. It's one of his favourite activities. He also loves hunting.
He was in tears and I was packing up to leave, but he asked to stay and after we cleaned the gun he took some more shots, but definitely more nervous and cautious. He is worried that his accuracy will be off now as he is more nervous, I told him it will take time and practice to trust again.
He was anxious and wore his earmuffs to bed last night :(
Overall lessons learned. Thanks!

I should add, I didn't mention it in the original post, but when I inspected the bore and bolt it looked like there was a bunch of moisture on/ in them. Strange! The barrel looked fine after I snaked it.
 
.22LRGUY said:
As others have noted, if you shoot long enough...you're going to have the odd "wake up call" using 22 rifles. I think most people are inclined to be dismissive of quality concerns, rifle cleanliness...sometimes even safety when it comes to 22s when in all seriousness, the same level of care is required no matter whether it's rimfire...or centerfire. It's why I sometimes roll my eyes when I read things like "I haven't cleaned my 22 in 10 years...and she runs fine!" There is allot of pressure even with the lowly 22, and proper care/good ammo can..and usually do make all the difference! Anyhow, very glad everybody is OK...and hopefully your son wasn't too spooked.

Out of the countless, thousands of rounds of 22 ammo I've shot in almost 30 years..I've never had a complete separation. I've had split cases though, resulting in hot, waxy/oily particles blowing back into my face. I wear prescription glasses and opt for polycarbonate lenses, so for rimfires...I tell myself that's enough. I will add...any time I've had issues with a case splitting, it was always Remington or Winchester ammo...and either a Cooey single shot or Norinco rifle. I stopped buying Remington ammo altogether after the worst episode (looked like I had pink freckles on my right cheek for 3 days) and never used Winchester white box in anything until about year ago. 99% of what I shoot these days is CCI, with a healthy dose of SK for good measure...and a little Federal Gold Medal Target. I recently picked-up a couple of types of Eley to try as well.

My suggestion? I wouldn't use any more of the ammo from that box, and contact Winchester to tell them what happened. If you kept the case, be prepared to send them some photos. I suspect they'll ask for some details/lot# from the box. In the meantime, grab some higher-quality CCI ammo like Standard Velocity. It's not that pricey, and it is readily available. If your son is a little trigger shy...maybe consider some CCI Quiet-22 to warm him up to the idea before moving to louder/faster stuff. CCI's selection of ammo types is staggering~something for every application, and it's all very consistent stuff.
Click to expand...

Just watch the CCi quiets(720fps) they can be inconsistent, the longer the barrel the more the problem. I don’t pull the trigger on the next round unless I see a hole in the target. Sometimes I can even see the round go to the target(25yds)
 
If you had a case rupture, pretty much guaranteed that the bullet also got stuck in the barrel. If another round was fired, I'll bet you have a little black ring down the bore with the matching ring on the outside of the barrel.
 
northerndad said:
Thanks everyone, I've read through all the feedback. My takeaways is that it will happen once in a blue moon, and I'll be upping our game on the safety gear to make sure he has proper fitting muffs and glasses (he was wearing glasses too).
Some have expressed hope that he isn't scared to shoot. My sons LOVE shooting like crazy, he probably had shot 2-3000+ .22 rounds before this happened. It's one of his favourite activities. He also loves hunting.
He was in tears and I was packing up to leave, but he asked to stay and after we cleaned the gun he took some more shots, but definitely more nervous and cautious. He is worried that his accuracy will be off now as he is more nervous, I told him it will take time and practice to trust again.
He was anxious and wore his earmuffs to bed last night :(
Overall lessons learned. Thanks!

I should add, I didn't mention it in the original post, but when I inspected the bore and bolt it looked like there was a bunch of moisture on/ in them. Strange! The barrel looked fine after I snaked it.
Click to expand...

Speaking of hearing protection, I'm a big fan of using the soft earplugs under the muffs. Sometimes the muffs shift position, but the plugs won't. Also a great help at the range if someone is shooting something particularly loud in the next bay
 
trevj said:
Did you keep the split case? Pictures?

Here's something you can try. Try to dry fire the rifle without closing the bolt all the way. Or use an empty case, and see if the pin will dent the rim if the bolt is not closed.
Now, I would suggest right off the bat, that was not an issue, as the bolt does not cam the round forward as it is closed anyways, and it would have to do so, in order for that to make a difference.
Click to expand...

Yes I sent the pics to winchester via their website support.
I just tested the bolt, it is possible to pull the trigger with the bolt not 100% down, but pulling the trigger drops the bolt the rest of the way. I will test on some empty cases as you suggest.
I did check the bore after this and it was clear, but with a lot of moisture in the barrel. It was strange.
 
I have had this happen with an old Cooey and Remington ammo. My friend has a Marlin semi auto and we were shooting Winchester bulk out of her, one shot would be loud, next you could hardly hear it, crap ammo.
 
IMO, the moisture in the barrel was caused by having the powder burn incompletely due to the case blowup not containing the combustion pressure.

Hence it produced a lower flame temperature and lower pressure inside the barrel, and these two caused the vapor to remain in the bore.

Normally, any "vapor" would be blown out of the barrel.
 
PGW Steve said:
If you had a case rupture, pretty much guaranteed that the bullet also got stuck in the barrel. If another round was fired, I'll bet you have a little black ring down the bore with the matching ring on the outside of the barrel.
Click to expand...
In my case the head was completely removed from the rest of the case. So I’d call that a rupture. No stuck bullet though, I know because I checked as I suspected the same.
 
northerndad said:
Thanks everyone, I've read through all the feedback. My takeaways is that it will happen once in a blue moon, and I'll be upping our game on the safety gear to make sure he has proper fitting muffs and glasses (he was wearing glasses too).
Some have expressed hope that he isn't scared to shoot. My sons LOVE shooting like crazy, he probably had shot 2-3000+ .22 rounds before this happened. It's one of his favourite activities. He also loves hunting.
He was in tears and I was packing up to leave, but he asked to stay and after we cleaned the gun he took some more shots, but definitely more nervous and cautious. He is worried that his accuracy will be off now as he is more nervous, I told him it will take time and practice to trust again.
He was anxious and wore his earmuffs to bed last night :(
Overall lessons learned. Thanks!

I should add, I didn't mention it in the original post, but when I inspected the bore and bolt it looked like there was a bunch of moisture on/ in them. Strange! The barrel looked fine after I snaked it.
Click to expand...
My son was also a bit worried when we went back the next time. I had him shoot a different .22 and the .223 to get him relaxed. We also cleaned the Cooey together to be sure there was no issues and he could get a good look at the mechanics of the bolt and chamber etc. He’s back at it now like nothing ever happened. Not sure how old your guy is, mine was 13 at the time. He had some little red “freckles” like mentioned elsewhere here.
What I found interesting and rewarding about the experience was how he stayed cool when it happened. Ne just pulle the bolt back, ste the rifle down, looked in the chamber and then looked over to me. But his eyes told the story, lol.....WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT???
 
northerndad said:
Thanks everyone, I've read through all the feedback. My takeaways is that it will happen once in a blue moon, and I'll be upping our game on the safety gear to make sure he has proper fitting muffs and glasses (he was wearing glasses too).
Some have expressed hope that he isn't scared to shoot. My sons LOVE shooting like crazy, he probably had shot 2-3000+ .22 rounds before this happened. It's one of his favourite activities. He also loves hunting.
He was in tears and I was packing up to leave, but he asked to stay and after we cleaned the gun he took some more shots, but definitely more nervous and cautious. He is worried that his accuracy will be off now as he is more nervous, I told him it will take time and practice to trust again.
He was anxious and wore his earmuffs to bed last night :(
Overall lessons learned. Thanks!

I should add, I didn't mention it in the original post, but when I inspected the bore and bolt it looked like there was a bunch of moisture on/ in them. Strange! The barrel looked fine after I snaked it.
Click to expand...

It's great that he still wants to shoot.:)
 
PGW Steve said:
If you had a case rupture, pretty much guaranteed that the bullet also got stuck in the barrel. If another round was fired, I'll bet you have a little black ring down the bore with the matching ring on the outside of the barrel.
Click to expand...

I've had Rim fire cases rupture , and I know absolutely that there was no bullet stuck in the barrel.

It's pretty simply if you fire shots there's 2 holes in the target. You fire a third and theirs a case head separation . There was No bullet in the barrel causing the case head separation.

Shoot 6 or 7 thousand rounds a year all sorts of things happen

Poor brass is the more likely cause.

I've shot a lot of 17 HMR ending up with split necks, again no bullet in the barre

357
 
Winchester ammo has bridged my pistol barrel twice, i caught it through inspection both time because of decreased accuracy. Im shooting cci now without problems.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom