Ricol Brand Shotguns

[TreMoR]

 

[Glock4ever]

The Seraphim is a nice looking gun. Too bad they are out of stock. 700$ seems high but I guess with the dollar being weak it makes sense. Chokes would have been nice too but it isn’t hugely necessary on short range gun.

 

[stubblejumper]

Economics make this hard.

To bring them in at a price people are willing to pay, the importer has to commit to a minimum order, and pay for the whole thing on the nose. Then between production time, import paperwork and shenanigans, waiting for the Horse Police to give it an FRT# (pretty much every fresh run is going to get reviewed by the lab, regardless of how straightforward it seems to people with more than 2 functioning brain cells to rub together). Between dropping the cash, and having something in stock, the importer is looking at 6 months to a year. Plus all kinds of "hidden" costs. If CBSA decides they want to break bulk and inspect the shipment, then the importer is on the hook for the storage fees while it sits on the dock waiting to be inspected, and pays by the day. If CBSA is being squirrely, the sipment can sit on the docks for weeks or months waiting for an "expert" to show up and say "Yah, they're guns, so what?" which drives up the cost a LOT (this happened with the short 12gauge Ricols, and represented about 1/3 of the cost by the time all was said and done - talked about it with Martin at a gun show shortly after).

The demand for these is high within a certain segment, but it isn't a mass market gun, so they'll only ever be made in batches - no dedicated factory line for them, so all the above mentioned problems will apply in perpetuity.

When Martin did that initial run, the Canadian Peso was trading a LOT higher vs. the Turkish Lira. Since then, the cost of Turkish made guns is up 50%-75% across the board. On a small batch of shotguns like the Ricol shorties, this moves the end retail price from about $600 (IIRC) to the $900+ range, at which price, the market for them runs for the hills.

Add to this the political instability in Turkey, and it makes the smaller importers really hesitant to deal in Turkey. They could be throwing tens of thousands at a production run, that by the time it's ready for shipment, might very well end up getting locked out of Canada for any number of political reasons (heads up - a lot of the smaller importers are already completely abandoning Turkish imports for this, and a lot of other reasons).

While I can see people paying $350 for a novelty gun, when the price gets to $600, far fewer people will pay that much for a shotgun with such limited capabilities. At $900, most people want a much more practical shotgun.

 

[hunterhenderson]

The Seraphim is a nice looking gun. Too bad they are out of stock. 700$ seems high but I guess with the dollar being weak it makes sense. Chokes would have been nice too but it isn’t hugely necessary on short range gun.

I paid $525 from marstar..........BTW the internals on these guns are different than the ricol, the seraphim is made by PARDUS arms in turkey, check out all their short guns, very nice

 

[Glock4ever]

While I can see people paying $350 for a novelty gun, when the price gets to $600, far fewer people will pay that much for a shotgun with such limited capabilities. At $900, most people want a much more practical shotgun.

I think that is what Grelmar is saying as well. It is too bad that they can’t get them in again around the 4-500 price point as they would sell quite well.

 

[klaus enuff]

I also have the Ricol 12ga o/u with the removable choke tubes, a question to fellow owners: Does anybody else have problems with the top barrel not firing?

The first one I had was really bad, the replacement that Martin sent was better (he even included the empty test hulls from firing) but I still get the occasional round not going off. Not so much a problem on the range and having fun but obviously a concern when afield.

I haven't taken it down yet, I guess that is my next step along with cleaning up and polishing the internals. I have noticed that the top firing pin does not hit the primer square, it seems to hit at an angle.

 

[TreMoR]

I have two of these , no problem for me.

 

[grelmar]

I think that is what Grelmar is saying as well. It is too bad that they can’t get them in again around the 4-500 price point as they would sell quite well.

Pretty much.

I really like my Ricol - it's a great gun and worth every penny I paid for it.

But the market for this kind of gun, when priced above $600, is very limited. Although it is growing. A lot of the bias toward long barreled shotguns is just that - bias. You don't lose a significant amount of power, and they're very nice handling.

Usually my shorties head to the farm or the bush. But every now and then when I take them to the range, they get the side eye from "traditionalists". Funny thing is, when I can convince one of them to actually shoot my short guns, they almost universally can immediately see the benefits, in terms of handling and handiness. Field guns are getting shorter and shorter. While you still see the 28" barrels at the skeet and trap ranges, you don't see them in the field anywhere near as much anymore. Pretty common to see 20" barrel field guns now, and that was almost unheard of even a decade or so ago.

*shrug* Shooting is an inherently conservative endeavor. People want to use what they know works.

In a lot of ways, I'm surprised at how quickly the short barrel guns have gained any market at all in hunting circles. Over time, there will be more acceptance, and our options in the category will grow as demand grows.

 

[Glock4ever]

I also have the Ricol 12ga o/u with the removable choke tubes, a question to fellow owners: Does anybody else have problems with the top barrel not firing?

The first one I had was really bad, the replacement that Martin sent was better (he even included the empty test hulls from firing) but I still get the occasional round not going off. Not so much a problem on the range and having fun but obviously a concern when afield.

I haven't taken it down yet, I guess that is my next step along with cleaning up and polishing the internals. I have noticed that the top firing pin does not hit the primer square, it seems to hit at an angle.

Not me. I took mine apart and polished it as mine was very rough inside.

 

[Glock4ever]

Pretty much.

I really like my Ricol - it's a great gun and worth every penny I paid for it.

But the market for this kind of gun, when priced above $600, is very limited. Although it is growing. A lot of the bias toward long barreled shotguns is just that - bias. You don't lose a significant amount of power, and they're very nice handling.

Usually my shorties head to the farm or the bush. But every now and then when I take them to the range, they get the side eye from "traditionalists". Funny thing is, when I can convince one of them to actually shoot my short guns, they almost universally can immediately see the benefits, in terms of handling and handiness. Field guns are getting shorter and shorter. While you still see the 28" barrels at the skeet and trap ranges, you don't see them in the field anywhere near as much anymore. Pretty common to see 20" barrel field guns now, and that was almost unheard of even a decade or so ago.

*shrug* Shooting is an inherently conservative endeavor. People want to use what they know works.

In a lot of ways, I'm surprised at how quickly the short barrel guns have gained any market at all in hunting circles. Over time, there will be more acceptance, and our options in the category will grow as demand grows.

Agreed. I have longer barreled shotguns but when you are using brush it is nice to have a short easy handling gun. I have taken a few rabbits with this gun and never once did I wish I had a longer barrel.

 

[dand883]

Agreed. I have longer barreled shotguns but when you are using brush it is nice to have a short easy handling gun. I have taken a few rabbits with this gun and never once did I wish I had a longer barrel.

If i were trying to hit a bird flying the extra barrel length helps, but i've got the 20ga version of the ricol that's become my rabbit gun. The shorter barrels are much nicer for when you're forcing your way through alders and small spruce trees and trying to not get your barrel all caught up in the branches.

 

[Glock4ever]

If i were trying to hit a bird flying the extra barrel length helps, but i've got the 20ga version of the ricol that's become my rabbit gun. The shorter barrels are much nicer for when you're forcing your way through alders and small spruce trees and trying to not get your barrel all caught up in the branches.

The funny looks you get from the local yokels is also worth the price of admission. Many guys I meet are shocked to see legal O/U that looks like I took a hacksaw to. Call it my "Robber Shotty"

 

[kjohn]

I have had short barrel shotguns at guns shows. People will come up, stare at them, then with an incredulous look, ask, "Are these legal?"

While I don't argue that these shotguns are "handy", etc., I do not like the fact that they are exceptionally loud. No surprise, just don't like the extra racket, ear protection or not.

 

[Glock4ever]

I have had short barrel shotguns at guns shows. People will come up, stare at them, then with an incredulous look, ask, "Are these legal?"

While I don't argue that these shotguns are "handy", etc., I do not like the fact that they are exceptionally loud. No surprise, just don't like the extra racket, ear protection or not.

Yep. I wear e-muffs when I shoot now. The days of shooting naked are done for me.

 

[riversrest]

IMO, from a hunter's perspective, these are a novelty guns - a conversation object in this sense. They are neither handy nor useful for most hunting purposes... and spare me the cr@p like "handy in dense alders, brush, undergrowth, thistles, devils club, rose bushes, hazelnut, etc.

Btw. I've never seen anybody do good shooting with them - either range or field! Except maybe, the shooting channel guy with a DA backpacker hitting clays thrown from his coat's pocket.

 

[finstr]

IMO, from a hunter's perspective, these are a novelty guns - a conversation object in this sense. They are neither handy nor useful for most hunting purposes... and spare me the cr@p like "handy in dense alders, brush, undergrowth, thistles, devils club, rose bushes, hazelnut, etc.

Btw. I've never seen anybody do good shooting with them - either range or field! Except maybe, the shooting channel guy with a DA backpacker hitting clays thrown from his coat's pocket.

Well maybe you could explain that to all the dead coyotes I've killed with mine. We run the coyotes with hounds and the Ricol is definitely a serious hunting tool in the thick bush. With over 20 kills to its credit so far plus the numerous grouse it's taken I would hardly call it a "conversation object".
I'll post a dead turkey after the season opens for ya too.
And this first coyote was killed with a sabot slug on opening day for deer at 20yds with the Ricol. So yes it's a deer hunting tool too.

 

[dand883]

The funny looks you get from the local yokels is also worth the price of admission. Many guys I meet are shocked to see legal O/U that looks like I took a hacksaw to. Call it my "Robber Shotty"

I have had short barrel shotguns at guns shows. People will come up, stare at them, then with an incredulous look, ask, "Are these legal?"

While I don't argue that these shotguns are "handy", etc., I do not like the fact that they are exceptionally loud. No surprise, just don't like the extra racket, ear protection or not.

The first time I had it out hunting when I pulled it out of its case my cousin jumped right back yelling "you can't have that out here, it's too short, it's restricted". He still can't believe it's not butter.

IMO, from a hunter's perspective, these are a novelty guns - a conversation object in this sense. They are neither handy nor useful for most hunting purposes... and spare me the cr@p like "handy in dense alders, brush, undergrowth, thistles, devils club, rose bushes, hazelnut, etc.

Btw. I've never seen anybody do good shooting with them - either range or field! Except maybe, the shooting channel guy with a DA backpacker hitting clays thrown from his coat's pocket.

Like I said, I'm not going to be trying to knock flying birds out of the sky with it, but I'm not very good at that even with a longer barrel.

When it comes to more stationary game like rabbits though, my freezer and meat pies would disagree that you can't shoot good with one.

 

[Gatehouse]

I have 2 of the 20 g versions. Mostly used at the range but they are my new favourite grouse gun now. Wing shooting isn’t a problem although most of the shots here aren’t too far away anyway. Great upland hunting guns, but probably not the best for trap shooting

 

[Big JD-From the hills]

I'm not sure why but my 8" 870 clone shot 00 buck abnormally tight. Birdshot was a he'll of a spread though but with buckshot you may as well have been using slugs.

I am after something similar to this style of shot gun, but it's got to be dead nuts reliable. The 870 clone wasn't even close to reliable.

Wonder how the Chiappa triple threats turned out?

 

[finstr]

^^
If you want dead nutz reliable the 870 (not the clone) would be almost perfect. Would your clone barrel fit the real 870?

As far as buckshot goes it likes different chokes altogether than birdshot or slugs. It's a whole different animal. Your clone just happens to be what that buckshot likes. Of course the combinations are endless.